Liz
“It just worked out good. And we had some good times, and we enjoyed it. And we all worked hard together to keep what we had.”
ANNOTATIONS
Transcript: “Because with my parents, they were struggling too, with six kids.”
Transcript [2]: “I was a single mom for a while. Working and taking care of them on my own. I had no welfare or any help like that. I did it on my own.”
Transcript [3]: “You have your kids, but you can’t even afford to have them. These days, forget it! Trying to have kids these days? What you have to pay for everything they wear and eat. Formula even. I can’t believe the prices on these things! They’re really going to get stuck if they have kids too young. What are you going to do.”
Learn More: “Policy Basics: The Child Tax Credit,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, December 10, 2019.
Learn More [3]: “What Is the Child Tax Credit?,” Tax Policy Center, May 2021.
Transcript: “It’s pretty sad that I had to work that many jobs in order to make enough money to live.”
Transcript [2]: “I was below the poverty line, even with three jobs. Even with three jobs.”
Learn More: “Policy Changes Needed in 13 Areas to Help Close N.J.'s Health Gaps.” RWJF, July 26, 2019.
Learn More [2]: “Building a Culture of Health: A Policy Roadmap to Help All New Jerseyans Live Their Healthiest Lives.” RWJF, October 30, 2020.
TRANSCRIPT
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Scott Gurian
Interview conducted in 2018
Transcription by Kether Tomkins
I’m a senior citizen that’s struggling along and I live in a senior building, and I’ve had four kids that I’ve had to support on my own, and I’m still struggling to support me at this old age.
If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you?
Oh, 72.
When and where were you born?
1946. I was born here in– well, my parents lived in Nutley, New Jersey, but I was born in Passaic, New Jersey in Saint Mary’s Hospital.
And you grew up in Nutley?
I grew up in Nutley, yeah. I graduated from Nutley High School, and I moved away after I first got married and had– let’s see, what did I have? I had three kids already. I was still living in Nutley. I moved away to Vernon cause that’s the only place I could afford to live at that time.
What was it like growing up here at the time?
Oh, I love Nutley. Nutley has always been a very homey town where everybody knows everybody and everybody helps everybody. My father was a cop here in town for 28 years, so it was a nice town to grow up in.
And what about your family? Do you have siblings?
I’m one of six. I have two older sisters. And my brother is the one that is just under me. And then I have two younger sisters under him.
So you grew up here, you said you graduated Nutley High School. So right after high school, what did you do then?
I worked at Prudential. Prudential Insurance Company in Newark. Right from high school, went right there. Then I got married, had four kids, and the rest is history.
How did you meet your husband?
He lived next door to my cousin, so that’s how we met, and we got married.
And how old were you at the time?
I think I was twenty. Twenty years old. Because I had my first baby right after. I was 21 in June and then I had my first baby in July and then three after that so I had four kids all together.
Do you remember when you were a kid or in high school, or when you first graduated, when you were first starting out, do you remember, kind of, your frame of mind at that time? Did you have any plans for what you wanted to do or where you wanted to go?
Not really. All I knew is that when I graduated, I had no choice, I had to go to work right away. Because with my parents, they were struggling too, with six kids. So we all, you know, generated a little extra income for them.
Did you move out when you got the job at Prudential, or were you still living at home?
Oh, no. I never moved out until I got married.
So you and all of your siblings – or most of them – were still living there, where you grew up?
Oh yeah. I was the first one to move out. My two older sisters lived there until the house was sold just a few years ago.
What was that like, six of you plus your parents all in that same house? Was it tight?
No. It was a big house. We had a really big house on Center Street. A lot of the houses in this town, you notice, are very big. And we had a big foyer. Living room. Dining room. Kitchen. And then they had an addition they put off the back for my grandmother, so later on my mother and father used that room and then they had three bedrooms on the second floor and another huge bedroom on the third floor. We had plenty of room.
And you said your parents were struggling a little financially. Was that always the case?
Oh yeah. My father was a cop in town. Back then, they didn’t make very much money, so he was working two jobs. He was working all day long driving tractor trailers, and then at night he was working as a police officer in this town.
And your mother was just kind of raising all of you?
Yep.
I’m sure she had her hands full.
Yes, she did. But at one point, she got a job too. She went back to work for a little while at Hoffmann La Roche, but then it just got to be too much for her because she needed to be home for the rest of the kids, the little ones, and you know, we were going to school, and I was working after school. From the time I was in high school, I used to work after school too. I used to babysit for the people next door until she got home late every night after work so– she had four kids I was taking care of. That was from the time I was seventeen years old.
So you graduated high school, got your job at Prudential Insurance in Newark, and then I guess all of you– you and your siblings– you all got jobs and you kept a little for yourself, but–
What happened is, when I was working while I was in school, at least I was able to buy my own clothes and they didn’t have to provide clothes for me. And my siblings too, with working, that’s what happened. You took over maintaining your own clothes, you know, which that’s a lot of money – shoes and stuff like that – so whatever my needs were for school, so it helped.
But a lot of the money you made went back to your mother and father, I guess, for the house?
Not while I was working during school babysitting. But when I went to work, I used to make forty-six dollars a week. That’s how it started out. That was way back when. I used to keep ten dollars a week for myself and the rest went into the house. That used to pay my bus fare and everything to get to work. I used to take the bus to work.
That was just the way it worked for everyone. I assume you would have liked to have kept more but you knew the realities.
You know what? Back then you didn’t even notice. It’s not like today. These kids have to have this and have to have that. We didn’t need that. You know? But we managed. It was no big deal.
So I guess with the financial struggles, there was no thought of any of you going to college or anything like that?
No. No. Back then, there was no way that my father could have ever afforded to send us to college. And they don’t have the means that they have today where they can give grants and everything else to help, you know? It was just, if you didn’t have the money, you just didn’t go.
Would you like to have gone? Did you ever even give it much serious thought?
Not really. Because back then it wasn’t really thought about that much. Especially for the girls. There weren’t that many that went to college, you know what I mean? I guess that’s just the way things were back then. You know, a long time ago.
So, at the time, there was nothing you thought of like, “I want to grow up, I want to be a teacher, I want to be a secretary?” Whatever the roles were for women at that time. Was there nothing that you kind of–
You’re going to think this is strange, but I wanted to grow up, get married, and have kids. Which is what I did. I wanted to be a mom. And I wound up being a mom to many [laughs]– Besides my own, I mean, you know. My kids’ friends all used to call me mom. They still call me mom, and they still come and see me. They used to come and hang out at my house all the time, so I was destined to be a mom.
So, you met your husband, and what did he do?
At the time, he was in the Air Force.
How long were you together before you got married?
Two years.
And then, until you had kids, how long after that?
Approximately nine months later. Yeah. We got married in August and I– so I had my first baby in July, so it was a little bit longer.
And he was out of the Air Force by then?
Yeah, yeah.
What was he doing at that point?
I can’t even remember what that company was, who he was working for, and what they were doing, but he didn’t work for them for too long. He ended up working as a– driving tractor trailers.
Just like your father had done.
Yeah. Isn’t that weird? My brother also wound up driving trucks. And my son. So, it’s like, it’s a family thing. My son is still dealing with driving trucks and stuff like that.
So while your husband was out working, you stayed home to raise the kids and you had four of them, you had said?
Yeah. And then sometimes I would take other people’s kids in and watch them while they went to work, so it helped bring in a couple extra dollars.
And so you separated at a certain point?
Yeah. I’m trying to think of when that was. I think we were married eleven years. I was married twice. It was my second husband that was seven. Because I know I was able to collect his social security because you have to be married at least ten years. So it was eleven years with my first husband.
So, how long after the first marriage ended did you meet your second husband? Were the kids already grown up by that point?
No. My kids were two, six, eight, and ten years old. It was a couple of years before I got married again. I was a single mom for a while. Working and taking care of them on my own. I had no welfare or any help like that. I did it on my own.
So, just raising them and watching other people’s kids?
No. I went out to work at that time.
What did you do?
I was banquet waitressing at Playboy up in Vernon. Back then they opened up a hotel up there.
You were in Vernon this whole time? It’s a very rural kind of area.
Yup, yeah. I hated it. I really did. I hated it. My husband wanted to go there, so we went up there, and it all went downhill from there. Because he was working down here in Secaucus, and I was up there with the kids. I was alone ninety percent of the time, and I really hated it.
You felt isolated?
Yeah. And I wound up staying there until the last one graduated high school because I didn’t want to take them out of high school. You know?
How did you manage raising the kids while you were also working during this time?
I had babysitters. Friends that helped, who would watch them while I worked. And the hours that I worked– it was good because my kids were in school. My kids were getting older and they were able to watch each other– which they knew I had no choice, I had to do it. You know, if we wanted to live, I was paying for the house that we were living in. It was a house, not an apartment. Because up there it’s not like you can get an apartment. We managed. And I had a lot of friends that helped. Thank God.
How old were your kids when your second marriage ended?
We were married for seven years so you figure my oldest was seventeen at the time. So, seventeen, fifteen, thirteen, and eleven. That’s how old they were–
So then you were left to continue raising the kids on your own at that point?
That was it. And I was done. I said, “It’s me and you guys, that’s it!”
Done with marriage?
Yeah. [Laughs] That’s one less child to take care of!
And, so what was it like at that point, raising the kids after that? You didn’t have a partner, didn’t have a second income. It was just you.
No. It was just us, and that’s when I had started working three jobs. And my oldest was seventeen, so he was working too and he was helping. And then the girls used to get babysitting jobs, you know, and take care of the youngest sister, so it worked out good. We worked good together. We still sit and laugh about all the stuff we did, you know. We had a lot of fun together, you know, because I had gone through a very trying marriage. Both times where I was, um– I’m trying to see how I can put this. Verbally and mentally abused. By both of them. And physically by both of them. And it was to a point where now the kids were older and they were seeing that I was happy and wasn’t being beat on all the time. It just worked out good. And we had some good times, and we enjoyed it. And we all worked hard together to keep what we had.
You said that you had three jobs at this point. What were you doing?
Yeah. I was working at Hidden Valley Ski Resort. I was a banquet waitress. But then I ended up taking over managing that department. And then I was also working at Gary’s Room and Lodge. Bartending. And on the weekends, I was working in the deli in the condos up there. There was a deli. I was working on Saturdays and Sundays there. It’s pretty sad that I had to work that many jobs in order to make enough money to live. And then you have these kids graduating from high school that were all joining the crew that was building the condos up there, and they were making more money than me on one job. That used to bother me a lot. Because that was like, What am I doing here? I’m driving myself crazy. I’m exhausted. And I’m making just as much as they are with one job!
But we did it. We had fun Christmases. We couldn’t have much, but we used to color for each other and make different things. We used to bake and make different things. It was tough, but we did it, and we’re all happy for it.
And with those three jobs and your oldest, the seventeen year old, working– With all that together, were you still sort of just making ends meet?
Just. Just making ends meet. Just barely making ends meet. Struggling to put a meal on the table. We managed. I made up all these different recipes that the kids friends still laugh at me and say they love this and that. “Oh, make this for me, I haven’t had it since years ago!” And it was like hotdogs, rice, and beans. But they loved it, you know?
So you were trying to be really frugal?
Yeah, yeah. I had to. I had to spread it and make it filling. You know, hardy. So they could get through the day. And I managed to figure things out. To this day, I love to cook and make things up. Back then, I had to. I still do.
So it sounds like maybe you might have been struggling a little, but you were doing your best to insulate your kids from that.
Yeah. And they would eat anything I made. You know, so many kids are so picky. “I don’t like this, I don’t like that.” Anything I made, they were glad to have, and they ate it. That was a good thing.
So would you say your financial situation changed a lot after your second marriage ended, when it was just you? Was it an immediate shock? To not have that second income?
Not really because he was drinking all the time. And then he got involved in drugs. So I wasn’t getting any of his money anyway. So why am I sitting here getting beat up by him, you know, and letting my kids see this and have them be frightened all the time? So I said, “Okay kids. Everyone grab one of those big green plastic bags, put in what you want of your clothes and what have you. Take as much as you can, and that’s it. The rest we have to leave. We’re going. We’re out of here.” And we left.
So you all were living with him, and you picked up and left one day? Where did you go?
First of all, I had such a fear of him, that me and the kids took our things and we went and hid in the woods for a little while [laughs]. Yeah. Because I was afraid if he found me, what he would do, you know?
How long was that for?
Just that day. And then I called my friend, and she came and picked me up. And I went to her house with the kids. And then I got a motel room, and it went on from there. I went into one of the condos, as a matter of fact, and I rented that for 650 dollars a month. And I figured, well we can manage that, which we did. It was away from him. He was quite annoyed. He said, “You’ll never manage.” I said, “Watch me.” And I did! Never had another husband again or anybody to, you know, say, “Well, if it wasn’t for me, you wouldn’t have that.” I knew I’m the one that was doing this. We had what we had because I went to work and got three jobs and I managed. That was it.
So, to get out of this abusive relationship at the time, you and the kids just took some stuff and left not only him, but left the whole house and everything else you owned behind?
Yup. I had to! It was either that or one of these days he was going to beat me up so bad I wouldn’t be able to get up and walk away. So you know, it was important that my kids get out of there. So we did it, and we’re all kind of proud of it, you know? We managed.
But everything else you owned in the house, that was all lost?
That was just gone. I didn’t care. I rented a place in the condos, and it was furnished. It was 650 dollars a month. We were struggling, you know. Like I said, we managed to get what we could and do what we could and we did it.
And how long were you living in the condo there?
About ten years, maybe. I was waiting for my kids to graduate high school. I did not want to go someplace and have to make them such a complete to change, to disrupt their lives. They were still going to the same high school. They still had the same friends, and their friends were also very helpful. They used to come around and help me because they loved me. Because I always treated them like my own kids. The one year, two of the guys got us a Christmas tree because I couldn’t afford to buy a Christmas tree. They all came over to decorate it. My house always had loads of coloring books and crayons. Even at their age, at seventeen or whatever, they used to sit down and color me a paper and sign their names. They loved me, and they did a lot to help us. And one year, I had no way of getting Christmas gifts for the kids, so they all picked one kid each and bought them a Christmas gift to have under the tree. It’s going to make me cry. That’s how it was with me and my kids and their friends. I always still call them my kids, and to this day they call me mom. So I was very fortunate that way. Very fortunate. I had my struggles, but I had my good things too, you know?
That sounds like that would be hard, though, building up a lifetime of everything you own: the house, all your possessions and everything. It’s almost like your house burned down or a tornado came through. You had to start from scratch.
Yeah. I would not go back there. I would not take the chance of him being able to trap me and beat me. Is it worth it? No. That’s nothing.
And like going to a lawyer or something– that wasn’t really a route you could take?
Later on I did go to a lawyer. I didn’t have the money to go to lawyer, you know what I mean? So I just did the best I could to keep us in a home at the time, and then when I got a little more settled, then I talked to a lawyer, and come to find out he was going to have to pay for the lawyer anyway, so– And then also he was still in that house, and that house, believe it or not– the house that we were in was the house that my father built when we were kids. That was our summer home. So that wasn’t even his house. That was my house, you know what I mean? So I got that settled with the lawyer too, and anything that was left in there that he didn’t destroy was mine. So I eventually got the important things back like my pictures and, you know, my past life and the kids all growing up– they got their things back, so we were able to eventually get them back.
It wasn’t easy. I had to go to court and meet him in the lawyer’s office and what have you, and I was scared to death when I had to see him. And the lawyers made sure that they were with me and they also put a restraining order on him because they knew what was going on. Because I was very good friends with some of the police in town too. So I mean, them and their wives– we used to all do things together all the time. So they knew what was going on. So yeah, I eventually got my stuff back. Not all of it, but enough.
There was never a thought, at that point, of moving back into the house, or you weren’t financially able?
Oh, no. We sold it.
So, you moved. I mean, it was kind of a sudden thing. You and the kids had to get out into the woods and then you ended up in this condo. And I imagine at the time, you thought this was just a temporary thing. Like we just need to get out, we need to get somewhere. But you ended up staying there for ten years, you said.
No, I had no intentions of going back.
But did you intend to stay there for ten years?
Yeah. I intended to stay there until my youngest daughter graduated high school. So I figured I’m here. So when she graduated, that was it. I was done, went back to Nutley.
So in terms of your finances, was that hard? I know you didn’t have much, but still, just starting out from scratch, when you moved out, basically with nothing, with whatever you had in your bags–
Yeah. That was it. Like I said, the only reason I made it was because the apartment was furnished, so I didn’t have to worry about getting furniture or whatever, which I would have never been able to manage. But with it being furnished, it was fortunate for me that we were able to just move in and there we were. And it was wonderful. We loved it. And it was nice because it was a big community where there was a pool and a deli that I eventually worked in. The kids enjoyed it. There were other kids there from school that lived in there, so it was nice. They used to go to the pool and have a good time. It was good for them because then they didn’t have to remember all this other stuff. So it was nice.
So you were saying even during the rough times, you had this big kind of support net of other friends, family friends.
Yeah. Mainly the kids that were all their friends. I did have a couple of friends that were their parents, and they supported me mentally, but nobody could afford to support me financially. So I knew I just had to do it myself. And I did.
And did your family help out with anything during all this time, or they weren’t able?
Well, thank you for my sisters because a lot of times, you know, school would start, they would send up things that the kids needed for school, or they would buy them each a new outfit. You know, so that helped a lot. And come Christmas time, they used to send up a bag full of stuff already wrapped with everybody’s names on it to put under our tree, which was big help. I just– I managed. I managed, and I had my family’s support. You know, it was hard for me because we were so far away. I mean, nowadays it doesn’t seem like much, but it was an hour away. And back then, with all the time that I was working, I didn’t have time to come down here and see everybody. I was working three jobs. Every waking hour I was working. You know? Every day, seven days a week. So it was hard. But they still called me and gave me the pep talks. “Keep on going girl! You’re doing it!” You know? [laughs]
So after your youngest kid graduated school, then you moved back here?
I moved back to Nutley, yeah. And everybody was more or less off and on their own. My daughter Laurie got married, so she was gone. And my daughter Leigh moved to Florida with her friend. And my son– he was living in West Milford with his father. And everybody just scattered and went their own way. And I took Linda with me. Linda’s the youngest, so I brought her with me. And we came down here, and I lived in an apartment in Bellville. And I found a job down here. And the two of us worked together and kept that apartment going.
I don’t know. It just went on and on, and then I wound up eventually getting rid of that apartment and moving into my mother’s house with my sisters because my sister and my mother were very sick. I quit my job and stayed and took care of my sister, Helen for a year before she died so she didn’t have to go someplace. She had cancer at 52 so, yeah. Once she passed, I got a job again and started working for Canon Business Solutions in Lyndhurst. And I worked there for five years. And then I wound up having to go on disability because I had congestive heart failure. From then, my daughter Linda moved to Florida, so I moved down there with her for three years and then I came back.
I love Florida. I loved it! But I missed all my friends and family. I was very involved in organizations up here. You know? I belong to the VFW. And I also belonged to the Nutley Irish, and I was president for a couple of years. So then I said, you know? I was very lonely. I miss it. And I had ten grandchildren up here! I could never see them because they couldn’t afford to bring their whole family down there to see me, you know? So I said, I gotta go home. So we came back, and I’ve been here since then.
You started to say earlier that, through all of this, all the struggles and everything, you never got government aid during this whole time? Like welfare or anything like that?
No. Nope.
Why? Is that kind of a point of pride?
No, no. It was because I was working. I had to work, and I wouldn’t make enough money to support my kids, so how could I do that? I just didn’t know all the ins and outs. You know what I’m saying? I figured no– if I quit my job, I’ll be making less money. And I’m struggling now, so how can I do that? I made seventy dollars a month too much. I said, “Well, that’s the way it is. I’m just going to have to be that way.”
It’s interesting because that’s kind of the premise of our whole project. There’s this metric that United Way uses where they’re saying 41 percent of people in New Jersey might make more officially– They’re not like below the poverty line, but they still don’t make enough to have kind of a decent living.
I was below the poverty line, even with three jobs. Even with three jobs. That’s why I said, these young kids getting out of high school doing construction were making more money than me. And I was working, working, working, and I felt bad because I wasn’t there for my kids all the time. I mean, they understood because they knew if they wanted food on the table, I had to do this, but I wasn’t like a mother should be. You know what I’m saying? I mean, we were still very close. We didn’t have much, but we had happiness. That was the most important thing. No fear.
What I was starting to say is there are obviously people who are below the poverty line, but the issue is there are also a lot of people who maybe make officially make more than the poverty line, but still kind of fall between the cracks. They make too much to get government aid.
Barely existing. That’s what I’m doing right now. Barely existing. And it makes me mad. I was able to take care of four kids all those years. And now I can’t even take care of myself. This is terrible.
Because you can’t work at this point?
No. I have rheumatoid arthritis so bad. And I’m 72 years old. Where am I going to go? Who’s going to hire me at 72? I’m in and out of the hospital a lot. I was just in the hospital again two weeks ago for five days. So I never know. And I’m struggling really bad now because I decided I needed the secondary insurance. I can’t afford to be without it. And that’s another $137 a month I’m putting out, and I can’t afford it. And now I’m struggling like, “Oh my God. How am I going to pay this? How am I going to pay that?” It’s like really hard. Very hard. It’s sad when you come to this point. I worked so hard all my life taking care of kids and never taking a dime from social security, welfare, or anything like that. No food stamps. Nothing like that. And now look at me. I’m struggling. And it’s only me. It’s pretty sad. And I have to live in that apartment over there because I can’t afford a single bedroom apartment. So if I didn’t have them– because it’s for senior citizens, low income– and if I didn’t have them, they charge you rent according to what you make and how much you’re putting out in doctor bills or whatever. So I can afford it, but if I was any place else–
I don’t understand. I feel so bad for other senior citizens that are out there that don’t have this to go to, because they’re so few in our area, homes like that. They just have nothing. And this one lady was talking to me last night. I felt so bad. Because every year they up her rent, and she says I don’t know what I’m going to do anymore. If you want to get into one of our buildings, you’ve got to go on a list. And you don’t know how long you’re going to– It took me four years to get an apartment. I was living in a room. A nasty, nasty room off the back of a building.
Before this, you’re saying.
Yeah. Just before this. For four years, waiting to get in here. I was very thankful when I got the call. I moved in and here I am. And still struggling. You know, you manage to pay your bills, but then there’s nothing left over, and God forbid you should– Like, I don’t know how these other people do it. They go out for dinner once in a while or they go out and meet some friends for lunch. I can’t do that! I don’t have money! It’s like, “What’s going on here?” You know, I work hard all my life, supported my kids by myself, never asked for any help, and now I can’t afford to live, so that’s pretty sad.
Are you mostly living off social security right now?
That’s all I’m living off of. Social security. That’s all I’ve got!
You don’t have any savings or anything?
Pfft. There was no such thing as savings with the life that I had, supporting four kids by myself all those years. There was no way I could save!
So the place you’re living in right now, are you happy there?
Oh, yeah. It’s a very nice place. A very nice place. I can’t complain at all. It’s just that still, you’re paying all your bills and there’s nothing. I get my check on the third and I write all my bills out that day, and then by the time I get done, sometimes I’ve got maybe twenty dollars left for the month, and that doesn’t include food. I still have to buy food.
So what do you do?
Well, I get $27 a month in food stamps. Well what do you do with $27? Go to the store once and stock up on whatever. You know. I manage. They have the food pantry here, twice a month. Thank God, I go there and I get what I can, and it helps me live off of food. The food that I need. It’s not always the best, but it’s better than nothing. Once again, making up my little recipes and–I’m eating. But it’s just the fact that I just can’t go out and relax and see some of my friends and maybe go out to dinner once in a while. I can’t do that! I can’t. There’s just no funds. Fundsaloa! An Italian disease [laughs].
So how would you describe your life now?
I have so many doctors I go to. I’ve got so many things wrong with me medically that– it was brought on from the way I had to live and the jobs I had to do. Like this rheumatoid arthritis. It is killing me, and it doesn’t get better. It just gets worse. Continuously gets worse as the years go on. So I’m on so many medications for that. I take fourteen pills every morning and it’s like– I’m tired of it. I’m tired of it. And I have to give myself shots once a week for the pain. It’s hard.
What is a typical week like for you? What is your schedule filled with? I guess a lot of doctor’s visits, it sounds like?
This week yeah. Monday I went to two. Tuesday I went to one, and Wednesday I went to one. And now today I was supposed to go to one, but I cancelled that. I’m just tired of it! I’m running, and I get so exhausted with all the medication, because I’ve got lupus too, you know. And I was just in the hospital for five days. And I get very tired easily. So when I get doing all this running, I go home, and I pass out for two hours. Sometimes longer. But I hang out with a few of the ladies in the place. We do things together. We go sit outside in the nice air, or we find something to do. I do my laundry. You have to go downstairs to do your laundry. The days are busy. They’re busy.
Are there other things, from a financial perspective, that you struggle with? Obviously doctor bills. Food, you said. Are there other sorts of things?
Well I had a problem with PSE&G, and they had to help me here because I was fighting with them for four years to send me a bill, and they sent me a bill, never sent me a bill. I was living in a studio, and as soon as I moved from the studio into a one bedroom, all of a sudden they sent me a bill for fifteen hundred dollars. And I’m like, “How am I supposed to pay fifteen hundred dollars?” And they shut me off for six days.
Gas and electric?
Yeah, so I had no electric for six days! And I was going through hell. I was really scared. I didn’t know what to do. So they helped me here and got a little of it paid off. And then I had to promise to make an extra twenty-five dollar payment on top of what I was paying. And like, you know, I’m stretching that, and there goes more money that I have to pay out. That’s why I said, it’s like ‘Oh my God!’ And then I had to stop paying this one so much. And it’s like, where do I turn, where do I turn? I just get so depressed sometimes. And I keep saying to myself, “You can’t let that happen now. You’ve stayed on top of it all your life. Don’t let it happen now.”
When you say don’t let it happen, what do you mean?
I really thought I was losing it the six days when my electric was off. I was ready to give up. And all my friends–[crying]–I’m sorry–
It’s okay. It’s okay.
All my friends just told me, “You’ve made it this far! Don’t do that now!” And I said I know. I just wonder how much can one person take in their life? Being as sick as I am to have to feel that way and nobody knows what it’s like to have no electric for six days. There’s no air in the apartment. You can’t keep any food in the refrigerator. So it was really tough, and I didn’t know what to do. So they helped me, and also Meredith next door in the health department– they all helped me get it back on again. But I’m still struggling trying to pay it, you know? And now, like I said, I’ve got this extra bill because I decided I have to have that extra insurance, the secondary, because I was up to ten thousand dollars in doctor bills, and how am I going to pay that? It’s like, I have to do this. I have to have it.
Things that Medicare wouldn’t cover?
Yeah. This carries all the extra. They pay eighty percent, Medicare. It’s been a rough couple months. But I have a lot of friends. Thank God. Cause they were yelling at me. They had never seen me get down like that before. I’ve always stayed on top of it no matter what and just kept myself going. Always smiling. And they always said they could not understand how I could be so happy with what’s going on. And I said, “I have to! I have to. I have to stay above it so that I don’t lose it.” Well, I lost it. I lost it. I was like, “Oh my God, I give up! I can’t do this anymore.” And then that’s when they all yelled at me, and they got me out of it. So I just thought, “What am I going to do now?” There was no way. They told me they weren’t going to turn my electric back on unless I came up with $875. I said, “From where? That’s almost my whole check,” I said, “I can’t not pay everything else, just to pay you for something that you did wrong.”
Because they went so long without sending you bills, and then it all added up.
Yeah. I fought it, and even the manager of the building– She called up and told them, “You have to send this woman a bill? How do you expect her to pay it if you’re not sending it?” So, they said, “Okay, fine.”
Three times I changed my– I changed my address from the time I moved in there with them. And I called there. I was calling there every month, and I still didn’t get a bill. I still didn’t get a bill. “Oh well, we sent it out.” And here they were sending it to my old address. “When you were getting it back, don’t you think there was something wrong there?” So the manager of my building, she called too and she said, “This woman is not going to be able to pay you this bill, and it’s not her fault, so don’t you even think about sending her a whole bill.” My God, what is wrong with these people? They’re wrong, and they won’t admit that they’re wrong! So– then I wound up with that fifteen hundred dollar bill. They told me they were going to shut me off if I didn’t pay it, and I didn’t have any money to pay it! What was I going to do? So, they just went and shut me off.
So you’re still slowly paying it off now?
Yeah. It’s down to a thousand dollars. But that’s still a lot of money for me. That’s more than I make in a month. I fear that if they turn it off again, I don’t know if I’ll manage. I had so much food that I had to throw in the garbage, and I can’t afford to replace all that food again.
All of this I can imagine would be stressful. How do you deal with it?
Plus, my daughter has cancer. My youngest daughter. She’s in stage four. So that on top of the electric– I think that’s what made me just totally lose it. I’m worried about her. She’s my baby. And her sisters and her brother, they’re all devastated over this. It’s really quite bad right now, so– But I’m still hanging in there.
When you’re feeling really bad, do you have any coping strategy? How do you deal with the stress?
I go out. Out of the apartment. I go sit outside with my friends or we go downstairs and talk, or I get on the computer downstairs. I do what I can just to get out of that apartment. If I stay in that apartment, my head starts, you know, thinking about all this. But it’s getting better because now, you know– except this month it was tough because I decided to take on that secondary insurance. The health insurance. And that’s when I said, “Oh my God, here we go again. How am I going to manage this?” But I have to have it. For as many times as I’m in the hospital or at the doctor’s, I have to have it. The last time they sent me a bill for $1300, and that just keeps piling on to what I’m trying to pay off every month. And it’s like I just can’t do this anymore.
Do you know other people, like maybe people you live with, because it’s subsidized housing, right? Are there other people you know who are also kind of struggling financially?
Oh, yes. There’s a lot of them in there that are struggling just as bad as I am, but then there’s some that don’t. They get charged according to what they make or what they have. I mean, a lot of them have money in the bank, you know, so they can go here and go there. They’re all going on a bus trip to Atlantic City this Sunday, which I sure couldn’t afford to do. It’s only thirty dollars, but that’s thirty dollars I don’t have. So they’re all going to have a nice day together, and I can’t go, so that’s kind of depressing too, you know what I mean? All my friends are going. But they have the money. I don’t. What are you going to do?
But those that are kind of struggling– Do you all kind of support each other?
Oh, definitely, yeah, yeah. Especially my one friend that lives on the same floor as I do. As a matter of fact, she lives three doors away. She said the same thing. She just went through a bit of a breakdown herself because she said, I just don’t know what to do anymore. She says, “I’m trying to pay all my bills, and there’s just no way, and then I have nothing left.” I said, “I know. I know the feeling.” So, we try to do things. I got her to join the VFW with me. The auxiliary. That helps a lot because at least we get out once a month, and then there’s other things that we do that we get involved in, like we are going to have a beefsteak dinner in September, so we’ve got to start going to stores and getting gifts because we have a tricky tray with it. It keeps us busy. You know what I mean? And it’s fulfilling, knowing that you’re helping out the men and women in our service. I got two others that I got to join with me.
Do you feel like there are enough resources out there for people in your situation, or is it hard to find out about the ones that are?
It’s very hard to find out. I dug for a long time, because, at that time, I was living in a room off the back of the building. It was a terrible situation. And I couldn’t afford food, cause I was paying 400 dollars a month for that room and that was a lot of money for me. By the time I paid my other bills and doctor’s as usual, I didn’t have money for food. So I found out about this place and got into the food bank and then got into the lunches at the church.
And the church has, on the first Monday of every month, they give out bags of toilet paper, paper towels, toothbrushes, toothpaste, shampoo, laundry detergent. All the stuff you can’t buy even if you do have food stamps. That helps too. But it took me a long time to find out about this stuff. Before I got into that room, I lived in my car. Because I had no place to go.
How did that happen?
I was staying with my daughter for a few days, and her landlord told her that I couldn’t stay there. Otherwise he was going to up her rent, so I said let me get out of here. So, I got in my car and I drove down here and started searching. The Pastor at St. Vincent’s church was very helpful. He helped me. He gave me a couple of cards for the grocery store so I could at least buy food to keep in the car with me to eat. Even if it wasn’t cold food. Any food. So I wasn’t starving. I did that for a few days and then it was the secretary in the church. She found out about this room for me, so she called me and I went down there and got it right away. She didn’t want me staying in my car. It was starting to get cold. It was in October.
So, how long were you living in your car?
Only three days. Still, it was three trying days. I didn’t know how long I was going to be there. And I was scared to death because, if they found me, I could get in trouble. So I used to have to drive around and figure out where I would park the car that nobody would notice and keep tucked down, cause you can’t park the car on the streets in Nutley. So I would have to pick different parking lots that I could stay in overnight. It was tough.
I can’t believe I’m sitting here rambling on about all this stuff. I don’t try to think about all that stuff. I try to think about here and now and that I’m okay. I’m all right. Especially after I got into this apartment building, I felt so blessed. Because that room I was living in was awful. It had mice and cockroaches. I wouldn’t even take my bed. I threw my bed out because I didn’t want to bring it into the building. I was scared to death. Half the time I didn’t sleep. Or I would be so scared to death because the mice were so bad, I’d go out in my car and sleep in the car.
And how long were you living in that space?
Four years.
Because it’s the only thing you could afford?
Yeah. It was a roof over my head. I was thrilled when I got in here.
We’ve spent a lot of time talking about the past. I’m wondering, with the perspective you have now, are there any kind of words of advice you would give your younger self?
Don’t get married so young. [Laughs] Back then, that’s what it was with girls our age. Either you went on to college, which we couldn’t afford, or you got married, which I did. I was too young. I was a kid. I didn’t live and enjoy life. I didn’t have– Like a lot of people, before they get married, they’ll go on vacations here and there. I never did all that, and I missed that. To this day, I wish I had. That I could afford to go on vacations, even to go away for the day. But that’s what I wish that I could do– go back and not get married so young.
Do you think that that decision had a big impact on the rest of your life?
Yeah, definitely. Because I was put in a position where I had no choice but to take care of all those kids by myself right from the beginning. It’s like, what am I going to do? I did what I did. I had my kids. I love my kids. I mean, there’s no two ways about it. We’re still a very close family. But I was too young. Way too young. I didn’t give myself a chance to live.
At the time, though, that’s what you really wanted. You really wanted to be a mother–
Oh yeah! But now when I think about it, and I keep telling all my grandchildren, don’t get married too young. Go out and live life first. Go on vacations and visit places and see things, you know, before you put yourself in a position where you can’t do it or you can’t afford it. You have your kids, but you can’t even afford to have them. These days, forget it! Trying to have kids these days? What you have to pay for everything they wear and eat. Formula even. I can’t believe the prices on these things! They’re really going to get stuck if they have kids too young. What are you going to do.
If there was one concrete thing that could change right now about your circumstances that would improve your situation, what would it be?
Just to have my bills all paid off. If I could just have my bills paid off and just have my money coming in every month and pay what I have to pay normally, I could live then. But all of this dragging behind me that I got to keep paying, that’s draining me. That’s about it.
Is there anything that gives you reason for hope? What keeps you going?
My grandchildren. I have great-grandchildren too. My great-granddaughter is nine months old. The youngest one. She is the apple of my eye. I love seeing her. I love seeing her. Jamie was away with her for eleven days or ten days, and I was so lonely for her, and when she came home, she was all excited! I love my grandchildren. They’re my life. They keep me happy. I don’t have to support them. They come to see me, and I’m happy to see them. It gives you something to live for.
And every holiday I have at my house. I make the dinner and everything, and they come and help me do everything. And I have them all there. I love my holidays. Especially Thanksgiving and Christmas. Love it. And I have them all at my house. And I bake all the pies, and I make all the cookies, and I make all the pumpkin breads and everything, and they love it. I spend the whole month of December baking. That’s something that keeps me happy and keeps me going, and that’s something that helps me move. When I get so painful that I can’t move, I get up and start baking and it makes me feel better.
There are things. There are times. I mean, there’s hard times, but there are times that make you want to smile. Those kids do it to me. My oldest grandchild is twenty-six years old. He’s got three kids, and then Jamie had one so that’s four great-grandchildren I have, so that’s nice.
Anything else you want to add that I didn’t ask you?
No. I don’t think so. I think you brought me through it all and back again.
I really appreciate your time and your willingness to share. Thank you.
Yeah, well, hopefully it will help somebody else. You do manage to pull yourself out of the bad times, eventually. Hopefully it will help somebody.
Thank you very much.
You’re welcome.