Lydia Rainbow
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A West Orange resident in her 70s, Lydia Rainbow lives on a fixed income in federally funded housing and struggles to afford health care.
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TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Debbie Galant
West Orange, New Jersey
May 18th, 2018
Transcription by Debbie Galant
This is Debbie Galant and this is a May 18th, 2018 interview with Lydia Rainbow in West Orange, New Jersey for the 37 Voices project. Okay. Alright, let’s just start by you telling me um, your name? Introduce yourself and, and spell your name for me.
My name is Lydia R-- [clears throat] My name is Lydia Rainbow, spelled LY-D-I-A, second name R-A-I-N-B-O-W.
Ah, that’s an i-- is Rainbow a professional name because they’ve given me “Shornberg”?
I was born in Germany. And my parents-- my father’s name was “Regenbogen”. And most Jews c-- you know, trans-- well, he translated. So my father decided “rainbow” which was “regenbogen”. My uncle called himself “Regen”. [clears throat] Sorry.
It’s okay.
[Clears throat] Right. So. I don’t know how many other names… Most of his family perished under the hands of the Nazis.
Oh, okay. I just had had-- I thought that Gina said your last name was “Shoulfell” or something like that. So it’s “Rainbow”, okay, so I got it. She had it wrong. Okay. Rainbow. Lydia Rainbow. So tell me, um, when and where you were born.
I was born in Germany. Um. The town of Fulder. And my parents were survivors. My mother was in a camp for three years. My father had to run to save his life, but it’s a miracle how he escaped a lot of close calls. His wife and two children were murdered, so at the end of the war, he met my mother and… They got together and he went, they would up in a DP camp and that’s where I was born.
Do you have any memories of that or were you a baby?
No. My mother would remind me that she heard me crying because she couldn’t walk for three months. And I believe sincerely that because of that, I wasn’t nurtured. Germ-- and she made a comment about, you know, the German doctors and I could imagine. But, uh, we came to the United States in 1949.
Did you come to New Jersey?
No. My uncle lived in Spring Valley. And that’s what I think, why he came here. Not because it’s either Israel or the U.S. Well, the Israel he didn’t want to go because he felt he suffered enough and he don’t wanna have to struggle again. But he did struggle in the U.S. So we stayed with my uncle, and they didn’t get along. He had a grocery store, my father had business ideas for him. It clashed and we wound up going to Manhattan. And it’s interesting, ironically the money was running out by the Jewish, uh, Federation, or who was taking care, and my mother went and got, went to a tailor who happened to be German, and she thought for sure she’s going to have to go back to Germany. She was in tears. And this man saved us from going back. He gave us his one bedroom flat. He slept on the, you know, had bed bugs, but he forfeited that and made sure. I mean, a family. My father, mother and me. And I do remember this Greek man reading to me, you know. I must have been three or four. And I enjoyed that. I even remember crossing the street-- it was second Avenue. And then my mother tells me I let go of her hand and they couldn’t find me and then I was in the hall crying. And I thought it was a dream and it may have been true, that I crossed that whole street by myself.
Is that your first memory?
Um. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, when you’re an infant or a toddler you don’t remember. But for some reason at two or two-and-a-half, that seemed to stay in my mind. I even remember crying in the crib, which I don’t know if that was real or a dream. And I also remember my mother who was feeding me the bottle, the cabinets were all yellow. So I-- those are the memories that I can remember. As far as my father trying to get a job. He had relatives in Elizabeth, New Jersey who refused to help him, who had this… They didn’t want to know from him. My father was a glazer, which, he puts in windows and picture frames. They wouldn’t take him in the union because he’s a Jew. There’s a lot of anti-Semitism. So my parent-- my father found a store and he worked for the owner and eventually the own-- well, when the owner died he took it over. But I wound up in a predominantly Irish Italian neighborhood and I was persecuted.
I-I, um, interested in, in having you describe what it was like as a child? So was this in Manhattan, were you growing up in, in, in, uhh--
Well, Manhattan was, for a short time. And I was maybe under five. I think I was four when we came to the section of Brooklyn called Bushwick which is a bad neighborhood now, but. I do remember that we lived in the back of a store because my father took over the business and he remodeled the back. It was a, a, a one bedroom. A kitchen area, a hallway like a foyer, and a living area. And they made-- you know, they did it nice. And um… I remember kindergarten and I remember all the kids were Catholic. And I thought I’m Catholic. Cause I found a cross and I put it under the pillow. I knew about Cataclysm, about you sin a whole week and then you go to confession. Communion, confirmation, I knew it all. But I felt when it was the High Holy days and we would go to Synagogue? And that was when the women were up and the men was down? The little kids would scream out “You dirty Jews”. [Sarcastically] That was nice. So I was exposed to that. You know, what my parents. I could imagine what was much worse. So I will say my parents had taught me fear. Because I used to have dreams that “Thank God I was born after,” or I had a dream where Nazis were chasing me. And my father at ten years old took me to see “Mein Kampf.” That was not a movie for a ten-year-old because it was about the atrocities. I was, I couldn’t sleep for a month.
Do you have, um, any memories of… Um. Things that you did for fun? Things that you did, um, either with your family or with other children to play?
Yeah, um. You know, when I was like eight years old I remember… It was fun. There was a girl named Leslie and Janet. I remember this. And Leslie was half Jewish. And I don’t know what it was. Janet and I were fighting for her attention. And I have a picture of the three of us and she had a beautiful flower and we’re posing. And I remember Janet’s mother wasn’t Jewish, her husband was. They took us to, for Chinese food. I never had that. And I loved it and I said, “Oh, it’s so nice!” ‘Cause my parents at the time kept Kosher. They were observant. But, uh. This was an experience for me! And um. Oh, I used to… You know, in Brooklyn we’d call it a “stoop”. Where they have the cellar door, where you could op-- well, I made that a stage. And I would stand there singing. And the people would open up the windows and look outside. Then as I got older, we would sing in a group. And, uh. Not so much doo-wop but… This girl unfortunate, she died. Her name was Mary. And she loved to sing. As a matter of fact, when I hear a song, I remember her. I identify that memory. So. She was older than me by I think two years. It was a shock. She had rheumatic fever. And they rushed her to the hospital. She had some kind of episode. And when I went to the funeral home [gasps]. The grand-- [lawn mower engine revving] Oh my God, not now--
Oh, oh boy.
[Lawn mower sounds] The grandmother was screaming and screaming. And it was not a happy moment for me.
What’s that noise we’re hearing outside?
What do you think?
A lawnmower.
I could shoot them. They’re here every friggin’ day! And now look at this, five fifteen they come! Or eight o’clock in the morning! And I called the police, you know what they said? “Oh, they’re allowed to come at that time.”
What time in the morning?
[Lawn mower sounds] It was like eight o’clock.
Mm-hmm.
Or 8:30-- doesn’t matter! It’s annoying!
Yeah.
And now I’m gonna have the little kids screaming and then they got the guitar with the microph-- that ain’t gonna happen, I’m gonna put a stop to that. [Sighs] Anyway so that... Takes care of that. So basically. [Lawn mower sounds] My childhood wasn’t… The greatest. Also, a very, very important thing, the kids on Christmas? They would get ten or twelve gifts! I got nothing! Hanukkah? Zero! I owned two dolls. I had rollerskates... That-- and I bought with my allowance money games that were three dollars at the time. I never was given like other children. So.
[Lawn mower gets louder]
Did you think um, your parents a-a… did you have a sense of, um--
Do you want me to close the door?
Oh, good! I didn’t see-- [unclear]
You know, I could kill these guys. Every day they’re here! Every day. Right here, right here!
[Door closes] Oh, that’s better.
God! Ugh. And he doesn’t have those… ear things.
Wow. He’s gonna go deaf. Alright. So…
Now.
So did you have a sense of, um, rich and poor growing up? Did you have a sense of, of, of, um, was it a sense, ec-economics? Or do you think it had more to do with the Holocaust?
No, no. I was too young. All--
But I mean their, their experience with the Holo-- Holocaust. In other words, you, you, you weren’t given things and you didn’t get the gifts--
Not like the others.
Right. But was that because you, do you think, you, did you think at the time that your parents were poorer than the others or--?
No. No. I couldn’t think that. What I saw is Christmas made me very jealous. I loved the beautiful decorations in the window and the Christmas trees. So I remember this. One of the Italian girls that I played with, her mother said, “Why don’t--” to my mother, “Why don’t you buy her a little Christmas tree?” My mother said “No, that’s not gonna happen.” [Laughs] But it sucks being the only Jew. And yet there was a temple across the street around the corner. There was one girl, her name was Molly, that’s it. But most of my acquaintances were gentlemen. And I had it in the public school. And the Jewish teachers were vicious. They would ask a question, I didn’t raise my hand because I didn’t know it. And they would embarrass me by-- “Lydia, get up. What’s the answer?” I was like, so humiliated. And um. So. And then I had the kids yell at me, “You cheap Jew,” “You dirty Jew.” So I asked my parents, I asked my mom, “Why can’t we live in a Jewish area?” Well, in 1962 the neighborhood was getting bad, so we moved to Kinase. Which was Italian and Jewish. Excellent combo. Then, when I lived there, I didn’t get along with the Jewish girls because they had this “J.A.P.-iness” and I didn’t have that. I was… I didn’t act like I’m entitled. I did have a Jewish friend and an Italian friend. So, you know.
Talk a little bit about what you mean by the “J.A.P.-iness”.
The entitlement. That, no-- they’re better than everyone else. I think, when they use the word “J.A.P.s” --Jewish American Princesses-- to me, if you feel you’re a princess, it’s like you’re royalty, you’re entitled, uh, you know… People should look up to you. And, uh. We got a lot of that and I’m not from that mold. I’ve been commented by gentiles, “Oh, you’re not like the other Jews! I don’t see you with a lot of jewelry!” That was an anti-Semitic remark. And I said nothing.
How do we get from there to your adulthood? Tell me, maybe, some of the steps in between.
Alright, um, I could, um. When I turned sixteen, I didn’t have like everyone else a Sweet Sixteen party. But there was a little gathering in my house and I remember there were like, three or four girls, and… We celebrated that way. I didn’t have Tony Martin, like this girl I knew, like she had a catered affair? There you go-- Jewish American Princess. My parents didn’t see themselves because when, oof, what they did mentally to them… They become not worthy? And, you know, if you’re American born it’s a little differen-- but not all Holocaust survivors have that mentality. I’ve seen children of Holocaust survivors that seem normal. But I, unfortunately, they were damaged goods. And my cousin is one. But, there was something that, I persevered. My father was very abusive towards me. He was emotionally, he, he… With words. I wasn’t good enough. “You’re never gonna be anybody, you’re lazy.” All. Bad. And it’s, you know, I’m a little girl. I can’t remember how that felt. But I do remember running under the table from his strap. And comparing me to the two children he had, that they brought him the slipper. Like I was a piece of garbage.
Can you explain that a little bit, I don’t--
Okay [sighs]. He would come and tell me how the children brought him the slippers.
These are the children that died?
That were murdered. They were nine and ten years old. It was a boy and a girl. I was… too naive! I didn’t know what to, how to react. Um. But I later reacted. And I lashed at him for that. But my father would always, like, I’ll get further. I was married for seven years. I had my son with my first husband. I was not happy with him. I’d been in therapy and it was told to me that I married my husband to please my parents. Because they kept hocking me. “What’s the matter with you, why aren’t you married? You’re too picky!” And that was, you know. Now, I did meet a nice Jewish man, and he was very attractive but he wasn’t. He was. And, looks is not enough. There was an emptiness. He wasn’t a liar, but he lacked, and he… He didn’t know how to express emotion. He, um, in my opinion, even though he went to college? I didn’t feel, maybe academically he’s bright? But not in life. Where I feel… I’m, I’m an observer. I’m like a Machiavellian. I watch everything, I listen, I hear, I… Most people don’t. And somehow it stays in me. But um… My father called me “stupid, you’re never gonna be anybody”… And the most… Word he used most often was “not normal”. So when I got, met the second husband, he was Jewish, he was a chiropractor, my father made a comment to, to me, “What doctor would see anything in you?” My mother went “What?! You can’t talk like that!” And guess what? That marriage went to pot. My husband cheated on me, the second one.
Can um, can you tell me a little bit about, so, these two marriages, um. Where did you live, and uh--
Okay, I’m gonna tell you.
Okay. Thank you.
I met Ivan-- actually, I went to a dance and it was in Brooklyn-- those were the days. And there was a guy who ke-- approached me that I wasn’t attracted to, but I was attracted to his friend and I told him! “I would like to meet your friend.” And that’s how we met. And… And all of a sudden, we’re pushed into marriage. Now. There were things about Ivan-- his name was Ivan-- that I didn’t feel was right, but I said to myself, “Well, maybe once I’m married it will change.” Well, big mistake. So. And also, we were three months into the marriage and I told my husband at the time, “I gotta have a baby because my parents are getting old.” My father was forty years older than me, and my mother was thirty years older than me. She was never married. Because they would kill you if you got married and had a child. So there was a big gap and I had to rush everything in my life. So, anyway, I got pregnant. What does my mother say when I got pregnant? “You have a baby? What is this!” I remember it all. But yet, if it wasn’t for my mother, I would have wound up in a mental institution because of what my father did verbally. He could have destroyed me. I mean, you take a little girl… I wasn’t daddy’s, I wasn’t, you know, daddy’s little girl. I used to watch “Father Knows Best”. I wanted that father! Or in a soap opera. I wanted that father! I could never be close, and I felt, I took it that he didn’t love me, and guess what? His uncle never talked to me! It must run in the family. He was different with his own. But me? Nothing! No. Never talked to me. It was my aunt, his wife. If it wasn’t for her… I mean, I remember, she bought me a doll like this big. I never forget. I thought it was like she gave me the-- nobody gives me anything! So it was like, the biggest uplift I could ever imagine.
When you got married to Ivan, and you, your baby was named, is named…?
Matthew.
Matthew? Okay. And, what year are we talking about, were you married?
I married in 1970. And remarried [snorts], it was Leonard’s of Great Neck. You know, the wedding factory. And I gave birth to Matthew, oh. That was another thing. In my fifth month or fourth month of pregnancy, I developed a blood clot. And I couldn’t walk, and the pain was excruciating. And the pain, they let me stay in the house for two weeks. I kept complaining and complaining. My parents said, “Get an opinion of a different doctor.” I could have died because the blood clot could have gone to the brain. So when he finally said to come to the hospital, I was assigned a vascus surgery-- a piece of garbage, he’s dead now. But anyway. They were concerned-- I didn’t know this, but I felt like I was gonna die. That’s how I, that’s how scared I got. They said after it was over, they were more interested in saving me. Because the drugs they were giving me and the injections could have opened the placenta, I could have miscarried. And that’s why they came in the room and asked me “Are you bleeding?” I said, “Why do they keep asking me this?” I was in the hospital for a month. And then when I was ready to give birth, they put Ace bandages on both legs. And I was lucky it only lasted five hours but... And I remember getting out, they gave me general anesthesia, and they said I had a boy and I’m saying ,“No, I have a girl.” And I was so out of it with that anesthesia-- I think I did want a girl, not a boy, but, you know, the main thing he’s healthy. But it was difficult! For me. I, I think. I was beat up so much and so much trauma? Anything in my life is difficult to handle. I didn’t have, I was like this all the time. And I’m still that way.
Um, the, let’s go back to the wedding day.
Sure.
Because uh, was the Leonard’s of Great Neck wedding? Was it pretty fancy compared to anything you had ever gotten before in your life? I mean, did you feel at all-- no?
I-it was-- you know, the irony here is, I was doing other people’s hair. I should have been doing my own hair. But it, it, it was your average wedding hall. But I say it was fabulous,’ cause there were lots of weddings. And I know people who would go to these weddings to eat the food! That’s all I know the Swarctz’s! That’s all I know from somebody. Anyway, um. I didn’t have bridesmaids. I didn’t have close girlfriends. I had one. She was the maid of honor. Not all the relatives-- oh, I had a girlfriend I was close. Ukrainian. She had scoliosis. She was in, you know, a body cast. And I would visit her every day. And when she had a second operation, where I again visited her. She told my mother, “I’m bringing a guest and I’m gonna be there.” She stiffed my mother. And this is the girl I gave every single day, attention to? And I let her have it. We finally communicated, I said, “How could you do something?” So that’s… that was bad. But um, it, it was affordable. I remember what it cost, two thousand dollars. And I got it all back from the, from the gifts. The money, you know.
Did you pay for it?
My parents!
Oh, so you-- okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
The honeymoon was… a disaster. We went to the-- March. I got married March 28th. We went into the mountains, the Catskills. It was too cold! Do you know that we had to turn around and go back? And I spent my honeymoon in an apartment. That was, that was the beginning of what to come.
Where did you live when you were, as a newlywed?
Um. Rockaway Park, right up Canarsie. Yeah. But we got an apartment on 150th Street and we were on the top floor. It was a t-two, two, two story, I mean, you know, two family. And we had the apartment already. So. And we lived there, and I had my son. And uh. Once I had my son-- I was working before. But I stopped when... But then, I think, when he was two, we moved further down, instead of 150th, it’s getting bad area. At 85th Street. And I started feeling like I gotta work, I don’t wanna be a baby mommy all the time. So I started to be, one or two days, before you know it, I had a follower. And I wound up being a freelance legal secretary.
So uh, let’s back up a little bit. Did you go to college?
I did attend Brooklyn College. I didn’t finish it, but then I went to County College of Morris to pursue theatre. I wanted to be in the arts. And uh, the tragedy begun when my husband was seen in the car with the woman. I can’t tell you the pain. I was gun-- driving 100 miles per hour to catch up with him. And then I realized, you know. I couldn’t face the counselor. I fell apart. And I feared I would be in the street. This was a wonderful-- and I loved my second husband.
Wait a second, wait a second. This was not Ivan that was--
Oh, no. Ivan, I was with him seven years. I’m sorry. I’m jumpin’ around. I was married seven-and-a-half-year. I was not happy because I felt we were two different people. I did work. Um. You know, as a freelance secretary in Manhattan for different people. But I was not happy. We decided together to have an open marriage, where you could go out with somebody else, and we agreed upon it. He didn’t do it, but I was making up for lost time. I was running and running. And it was a lot of fun in those days, we had the Disco era. I was, oof. So I went, it was Great Neck. There was a club there and I met somebody and I was attracted to them immediately. And we, started to get involved. And that’s when I broke up the marriage to be with him.
Okay, so that, so that was the second husband. And what was his name?
Norman.
Norman.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. And where did you live with Norman?
In my parent’s house.
And Norman is the chiropractor?
Right.
Was the chiropractor. Okay.
He was a pathological liar. He told me that he could practice in New York-- first, he told me he worked for an employment agency. I found out wasn’t true. But in reality, he had a, a practicing license in the state of New Jersey, not New York. And that’s why we moved. He made it sound-- “Oh, we’re gonna have a better life, you want your son,” you know. So. I looked up to him like he was God. He was just so… You know. [Sighs] I liked the fact that we, we would look at the stars and he was into astronomy and I felt, you know, he was not a dope. But he was a sociopath, which I didn’t know.
Okay so. Before we get into… that.
Okay.
He moved you to New Jersey. Where did you move, and did it seem for a while that you had finally found something good?
Okay. This is exactly what happened. We lived together and I remember, because of I had the guilt so bad, we became like mediators with my hus-- Ivan. And we would like, therapy together. I felt terrible! I had no intention to-- I wasn’t happy! So when we moved to the state of New Jersey, the first place was Bud Lake. Mount Olive, Mount Olive. Everybody seems to know that place, right? Well, I have to tell you, when I come from Brooklyn, and you go to the Boondock-- I didn’t know 80 from 46! I almost end up in Pennsylvania! I said, “What the heck am I doing!” These high-rises, I was-- it was insane! Because I wasn’t used to it-- I was used to streets with lights! So the worst part, the nightmares started. He hi-- oh! I didn’t want to be working in the office, I don’t know. I like doing, working for law firms. Which was a mistake. So he got someone. And she was married. What happened is, I was alone too much. And I had no job. And I didn’t know what to do with myself. Plus, I was scared, I don’t know who I am. And. I was constantly telling him, I was lonely, and he probably didn’t like that. Well, it turns out that a patient of his turned into an affair. That’s um. Yeah. And like a moron, I couldn’t accept another failure. So I did everything in my power to keep the marriage together. Now the big thing is my parents were loaning him money for his practice-- he had no practice! So we set him up in the office and it was in Randolph. And it was beautiful. So. When the marriage-- I think, it la-- the whole relationship was a year-and-a-half. It could have been annulled? I have to tell you. It was so much for me that it was nine to five. Who goes into court from nine to five? I had the worst lawyer. He was not for me. He was interested in me personally, not in the case.
Wait, wait, wait. It was, you mean--
My second husband, I had to go.
Right right right right right. But I, because, you know, we’re trying to get kind of a picture of economic struggle and stuff like that, I’m trying to--
Oh! This is why, yeah.
I’m trying to--
This is why I have to tell you, yes. So when the marriage was going downhill and he was never home and I caught receipts and he bought her a ring, a bed, and it was partly my money because I worked part time. That’s why people don’t understand why I’m cynical. And it turned out I had no money! He was gone. He-- I came-- what happened is I was working and my son called me at work. He says, “Ma, the stereo’s gone.” I said, “Check the closet and see if there’s clothes.” Sure enough, there were no clothes. So I came home to an empty apartment but he posted my first husband’s pictures all over the mirror and the message without a note was, “Go back to him.” I got it. The thing is I went to the Welfare Board. And I told them, “I have no money, I need help.” When they saw, when they heard my husband’s a chiropractor, they said, “Your husband’s a doctor and you need money?” I said, “Yeah! ‘Cause he’s not paying me a dime!” He was such a deviant. He, he, what he did with the office was, he made it an incorporation where my name wasn’t on it. This man was underhanded. And that’s why I’m bitter and I don’t trust people. Because I was married, I worked. And I put the money in the checking account with his. And he used it to buy her gifts. And then my lawyer wanted me to go chasing her and [sighs]... This lawyer was a piece of work. Anyway. So I was destitute. So my mother came out and I knew I needed a job. And I needed a permanent job. And believe it or not, my husband, my ex-second husband followed me to work. He wanted to see if I’m working. He came right into the office and there was a big scene. You know, the worst part of it is when I, when he abandoned me, and he took my son’s things besides my albums and-- my mother came with me to the office-- which was ours! And he called the police for trespassing. And my mother and I were like, all I wanted to tell him, “Look. I got it. You want out. But you gotta help me! I don’t have money!” I didn’t get the chance to. But I had an extra deed in the trunk of the car. I was scared, but I, I took a couple of my son’s stuff and mine. But I wish I would have wrecked the car or taken everything. And a month later, my mother gets a heart attack. It was too much for me to bear.
Oh…
But, but you know. So, anyway--
Where did you live after that?
In Rockaway.
Okay, in Rockaway.
What happened is, we lived in Bud Lake. And he was seeing a woman who lived in Rockaway. And that’s why we moved to, uh, White Meadow Lake. She lived there. Wasn’t Jewish. Can you imagine I walked with my son to the lake and they’re sitting with a rock with their arms around each other? I totally forgot my son was right there and I’m going, “You!” And I’m in such a rage. “This mesquate? You trade me for this mesquate?!” And then he says, “Go home! Go home!” And my poor kid’s seen all of this! I totally forgot he was there.
How did you make a living? How did you keep, how did you, how did you keep clothes on yourself and your son and how did you get food and so forth after this happened?
Um. I can’t remember for sure but I’m sure my parents had helped me. But, thank God, in those days we weren’t struggling for jobs. My profession was in the legal field. So I went to Roseland, I interviewed, hmm, now it’s the Lowe and Stein is one of the biggest today. They’re number one. And I got the job. Mm-hmm. And from then on I worked as a sec-- but it was hard. Because I had to, I couldn’t do everything! My son got involved in sports. And by the time it started, I was in Roseland, he was in Wayne, and I said I can’t make it! I get out sometimes six o’clock. I worked a lot of long nights. I even worked overnight. I stayed there twenty-four hours where they had-- they let me go home so I could get some sleep, I mean, I got compensated.
How old was your son?
When I got divorced? Seven.
So, um, and that’s the last time you got married. Or did you get married after that again?
We were divorced, well, we came to the state I think, 1980. And um. I would say a year, 1981, it, it was just over.
Right, right.
And I, I never. I haven’t remarried. Believe me, I didn’t want to be alone and all I did was wind up with different people. And getting nothing out of it. So financially I was always, always. But the way I did it was work work work work work! And I may have paid a price with my son to some degree. A lot of times, I, I had to work until eight, nine o’clock. And I had to tell him, had to show him how to make certain things. But you know, he got so angry, he called my mother and said, “Ma’s not feeding me.” Oh my God. ‘Cause he was, you know, trying to get at me. But my, my son could cook a little bit. So.
So you were living in Wayne?
No, uh--
[Unclear]--
No, no, we lived in Rockaway, and then after the divorce I moved to Wayne because I was dating somebody from Wayne. And he showed me and I was very impressed with Wayne. And through him, I mean he, he didn’t give me anything but he knew the landlord of this complex and that’s how I started with the apartment. And then I, my son grew up there, went to high school there. You know. I wasn’t thrilled with the temples, not a Jewish town at all. Even though the section, the Valley Road section, I used to go to the Synagogue and I… I felt like, where are these Jews from? Cause where I lived, you know, a normal Jew. So.
So, it was a struggle, you had to work long hours, were you able to give your son more presents than your parents were able to give you?
Um. No, it wasn’t so much about the presents, but I do remember this. My son wanted a bike. I had an experience with my father. When I wanted a bike, I wanted a Schwinn. With the seat, and the fancy, you know. Because my father didn’t do that and I had to settle for the Ross, I made sure my son got the Schwinn. And I surprised him at-- because his father wouldn’t give me the money. His father was impossible. He, he wasn’t there for him in his formative years. And my son did not have a positive male image. So. It was worth it to see the, the expression when he opened the-- You know. The bike. I wanted him to experience what I didn’t.
So did you feel in that moment, that you had, you know, achieved some, you know, kind of American success a little bit? That you were able to give that to him?
Um. Yeah. But you know what? Um. There was some, you know, it’s ironic. Basically, lawyers are um. You know. Aggressive creatures and they’re not happy either. But. When I worked for Haneik, ugh, that was… number two. And they were in Beliard. There were some good attorneys. As a matter of fact, I’ll never forget when my mother died? Oh my God. They sent a spread, cause I’m sitting shiva. And one guy donated money in the honor of my mom and I said, there were some real nice, nice people. So. Um. But I had to fight for every dollar and. You know. As a matter of fact, when I, my very first goal. Took me three years to save up. That time, ‘67, a car was twenty-eight hundred [dollars]? I saved up in three years, that twenty-eight hundred [dollars]. I had one hundred dollars left. And. But my father gave me a hard time to sign, to cosign. Because I wasn’t twenty-one. Even though I had my own money. Everything I had to beg for. Beg beg beg. And it was awful! Anything I wanted I had to do a song and a dance. So.
Tell me about your son. Was, was you able to send him to college, is he having a better life?
My father helped me with that. And being a single ma, mother… They gave me a, some assistance. Because I had to find out. So I put him in, uh, well. I didn’t do what everybody told me. I applied to two colleges because every college you apply to, you gotta pay money! And they said to me, “Oh, you can’t just send.” He got, when he got accepted to Rutgers, my son said, “I knew which college you wanted me to go.” But. Um.
What was the other college?
It was Montclair. But I realized today, it doesn’t matter. But years ago, in New York, when I worked on Wall Street, the lawyers that they hired had to be from Ivy League schools. So. My son went to Rutgers and uh, I remember he had, ugh, he stayed in like a frat house? And then he wound up alone. Because all the kids went home during the summer. So, he struggled too! You know, he got waitering jobs and. You know, I can’t-- he volunteered, you know, if he stayed in the dorm, it would have been cheaper! But he, you know. They wanna spread their wings. Hang out with the guys. But he graduated, and then he got, you know, when he got married? He was workin’ for Prudential. And they paid for his Master’s Degree. They got it in, you know. Montclair State. And he graduated with a finance degree, a Masters in finance. Not that he’s applying it, but, he works for Comcast now in Pennsylvania. I’m not happy about that, that he’s far.
Um. This Wall Street story, I don’t think I’d heard about that before, that you worked on Wall Street for a while.
Oh. Oh, um, okay.
Can you tell me about that chapter?
The first-- hmm. I worked for a law firm on 40 Wall-- first I worked for the Manufacture Hanover-- that’s a bank. They were anti-Semetic there. I was in a typing pool with time checks, the whole thing. Some, something I was feeling concerned about, the job and what’s going on, I knew they didn’t like Jews. So I went to an agency and she said, “Why don’t you go into law?” Um, law? Ugh! Now I did take a course in college on being a secretary and we actually sat in a mock trial. So I’m thinking mm-hmm, I don’t… Anyway. I said I’ll give it a shot. And I remember working for [unclear] 52 Wall Street. And what happened is I got, I started to move up. The only way to make more money is to keep going. And in those days there was no internet. It was so much better. You call on the phone and they come and call you to interview and you have your resume and whatever! And they give you a typing test. Then I got into a pres-- they were all prestigious. I worked for Curtis, which was an international firm on Wall Street. And the type of lawyers that were there, one was dating Peter Lawford’s ex-wife which was one of the Kennedy’s. I remember this, this man was a sweetheart. His name was Brous. He was the former ambassador to the UN under Eisenhower. I’m tellin’ ya, this was. Beautiful. This firm was a party firm [laughs]. Because I dated the attorneys!
Wait, wait, this is before you got married?
Yeah!
And you were living with your parents in--
Yeah, yeah! In Brooklyn!
In Brooklyn.
Right! And um, the attorneys that I worked for overtime? They would take me out to dinner and put it on the client’s tab. One took me out to dinner and a movie! Some tried to get… You know, frisky, but. I said no. And then they told somebody I was a prude. But I, I did go with someone, but he was married. And… The experiences were wonderful. Went to French rest-- I mean, I miss all this! Now I can’t get a cup of coffee from anyone. But yes. So, that was exciting. Um.
Was that the time of your life where you lived most comfortably?
Was living at home. Yeah.
And you were making money.
Yeah. And the fact that I didn’t have to beg anymore, immediately I bought my own stereo, I bought my nineteen-inch TV, I just. Okay! Mm-hmm! And that freedom, it, it was like.. I was a prisoner. Who wants to beg all the time? So. You know. I mean, I didn’t spend all the money but, you know, I lived at home! But at age twenty-one I moved out and I lived in Brooklyn Heights. And I moved in an apartment. It was very scary for me. That time, a studio was one-fifty a month and I was five minutes from Wall Street. There was a famous hotel there, St. George Hotel. Now Brooklyn became the hotspot.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, it was, it was nice. But I was scared for myself. And six months later I met Ivan, and that’s when I had to… break the lease and, you know. So. Pretty much I… Even though I was, comfortable maybe with my parents, but I needed the freedom. I wanted to be twenty-one! Most people, lot of people, they don’t get out of the house. I knew a girl almost thirty-five, she still lives at home. So. It, it, it’s, I think it’s important. You need, i-i-it teaches you. That’s what it is. And it makes you grow. When you live at home with mommy and daddy, you don’t grow. You should be out of the house.
So. You raised… Matthew, is it?
Matthew, I raised him by myself. So.
Right. And he got into college-- you got some financial aid for him at Rutgers?
They gave me some aid for Rutgers, yes.
And he, he--
But my father gave me some money too.
And your father helped you out, too. Okay.
Right.
So, so talk about, if you could, um… That was, when did, when did Matthew graduate from high school?
Must have been nineties... Mm-hmm, he’s forty-six now, I don’t know.
So more than twenty years ago.
Oh, yeah! The nineties.
Okay. So, tell me about, basically the move from that, and that period of time to here, where, where, where, we’ve having a talk, an interview.
Well. [Clears throat] You know, I was an empty nester already and I… Um. I had looked in the paper one day and I see… I was about fifty-six maybe. Adult active community opening up in Livingston. I said, that’s what I need. And I figured I’d swap the house for that. And. Tragedy entered because I lost the money. Part of it was the market and part of it was my father. He didn’t plan. He wound up in a nursing home, I had to shell out the money! Until finally, I got him out of there and uh, he wound up on Medicaid. And that’s how I got him into Daughter’s.
Okay so let’s, let’s pull this apart a little bit if we can. So it was a, a. Um. It was a mistake, are you saying? That you went to this--?
No, no I--
Active community?
The money, it was. What happened was getting too expensive. The maintenance was, oh, out of sight! Most condos you pay two, two fifty, three hundred. This was five. And they, the rich people were hocking it for a water softener. Guess who had to pay part of that? Me. One winter there was a big storm and they had to use the maintenance plowers and, again, and I was running and running out of money and I realize I’m, I’m not gonna make it with this place. And it was devastating for me. That I wound up in this dump.
Were you, you, were you able to sell the place?
It was hard and I didn’t get a [unclear] because I defaulted on the mortgage. I couldn’t pay the mortgage anymore. And I actually stopped paying the maintenance. I went into the office and I said, “Listen, I can’t pay the maintenance fee anymore. I paid, you know, what I could.” And she was appreciative of that, but you don’t know what I’ve been through, oh my God. I had too much goin’ on. So much. So now, I was a-- I was, I was working for the Board of Ed in Livingston? That was… Playground age. It wasn’t a lot of money, maybe one thousand for the year. After two years they, they decided they didn’t need me anymore! And I, I, I took it as a blow? And a loss. And. It, it was bad. The stress was so-- I think I had a mini-breakdown. So I, I, just. When you lose something like that and then you’re forced to come to this? Oh my God.
So you didn’t get anything for the house because--
No! The bank!
Because, the bank? Talk about that a little bit.
Okay. There was a mortgage and I kept refinancing for a lower rate, but not realizing, because I was not of sound mind anymore. I was paying 15,000 fees, per, you know! It’s a game! But I couldn’t see anything, I just didn’t want to lose it! And whatever I had, they kept playing it out-- it was like three or four th-- I was even on food stamps! I was laying it out from my savings! And then I realized, this has gotta stop! And it was, I would say a good four years of pain! And then finally, every day more and more I felt she’s gonna throw me in the street! So. I got this realtor, she wasn’t a true friend, but anyway, she recommended an attorney. And he was no good. But he, I didn’t have to pay his fee cause he told me, “The bank’s gonna pay! I’ve done these before.” So! He was, he wasn’t doing much, believe me. In the meantime, I’m getting letters from the bank and I’m telling you, it’s amazing I didn’t collapse. So I decided I had to get out of here, because this apartment for, was up for, to be occupied. I looked at one before this one. And I realized this was a decent looking apartment--
You’re talking about where we are now?
Where we are now.
Okay.
And… I. Walked. Out. Of the place. The reason I did it, because I spoke to attorney. He wasn’t mine. He was nice enough to help me with advice. Said, “You’ve got nothing to lose, why you stay there? Just go.” And I did. In the meantime, she was showing the house. And somebody finally bought it, but it, it was going so long! I can’t tell you how many times he changed the selling price. It was going for so long, there was not a dime for me to get. And the fee, the realtor got, now the lawyer tried to get me to pay-- I know what happened. I wound up-- the bank promised me three thousand. I needed that like you wouldn’t believe, because I had a mover, had to pay the mover… The lawyer comes after me and says, “You know, I didn’t get what your realtor got. And you should be giving me your three thousand.” I said, “Excuse me, number one, you didn’t make up a contract, you didn’t indicate your retainer fee. For the, for that alone, you have no entitlement to anything from me. I was a lawy-- I was a legal secretary, I know the rules.” He says, “You’re right, I should have.” And I said. I never had luck with lawyers. My divorce lawyer and everything. But, I’m struggling right now!
Yes, I know--
But I’m just letting you know. It’s not over.
No, no, no, I know it’s not over. I want to hear about that for sure. But um, just to get a sense of what you lost, you owned the house in Wayne? You owned it outright, or you had a mortgage on it?
No, I had a mortgage.
You had a mortgage on it, okay. But you sold it, and then you were able to get a hou--
I was able to purchase the condo and everybody knew it was a good price! In Livingston? And it wasn’t as good as you’d think. Cause it, it. Millenium Homes, which build the Vizcaya did a shoddy deal. I can’t tell you how many people have had major, major repairs. And even when I left, did you know they were trying to come after me? And they were. A toilet exploded-- she wasn’t home, she was away. And something happened in the toilet and, and then it was not that. My air conditioner unit, that heating unit was on the porch outside. And what happened is there was mold. Now I’m out of there! And my neighbor who I know, his apartment was destroyed. So his insurance company called me. I said, “I’m gonna explain something to you.” First of all, it’s not my responsibility. I wasn’t living here. The condenser line backed up. That’s not my fault, that’s the builder’s fault.” They were very nice to me, Allstate was understanding, “Oh, no, that isn’t your fault.” And the guy who lived below me, I still talk to him, I’m sorr-- but he’s got money. You know. But I’m not saying that, anyway.
I--
I had no idea that this was going on. It backed up, the condense-- I didn’t even know, I didn’t see anything.
The, the uh, condo. How much did you pay for it, do you remember?
I think it was three something. And I had a mortgage, because I did, was able to put more than thirty percent. And then, you know. I bought upgrades, which was a waste. I never got to utilize it. The person living there now’s got… Nice upgrades. Um. Things were starting to go and it pulled more money out of my account. The disposal unit broke. The toilet broke. I mean, I, I, I, I was hit with repair bills that I said I gotta get out of here because I’m really sink further. It was, the only uh, feeling of relief was that I’m out of there? And I don’t have the fear that I had over there. Because I”m not going to be thrown, I’m not being that burden anymore.
But you, but you had bought a home that was over a condo that was over 300,000 dollars and you walked away with 3000 dollars?
Correct. They allow that for foreclosure.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
And so the foreclosure happened because you could--?
I ran out of money.
You ran out of money.
I lost it in the mortgage and...
Did this happen around 2008? Uh, was, that this happened?
I would say 2008, yeah.
This is around the time that--
Someone -- you know, I can’t swear. I was there… Oh! I was there from 2005 and I moved here 2013.
Okay.
But I was, a lot of years of that cloud, and and and I was like this.
It sounds like it was too expensive for you.
Yes!
The lifestyle was more, or the, not the lifestyle, but--
I wasn’t the Livingston, no, I’m not, not a snowbird. Everybody there’s got money. They go to Florida, they go to the Hamptons, they got Manhattan. I got gonish with gonish is what I had. I was too poor to be in the, you know. But. Not everybody is wealthy either, but obviously they got pension, they got, you know. That’s the key-- I never got a pension, because being a secretary, I got no union. So. And I didn’t get anything from my ex-husband either, because you had to be married ten years to get something. I got zip. So everything that I have done was with my, myself. By myself.
So, when you say you came here, and I, I, I, know what you’re talking about, but the pers-- the people listening to it won’t necessarily know, explain what “this” is. What this place is.
Okay, I’ll explain.
Sorry.
When I was seeing a social worker, cause I was in bad shape but they weren’t helping me, they were from Jewish family. They put together a list of affordable housing. And I was overwhelmed. I wanted to live close to this area, to Livingston. And I applied for maybe ten. This one, they called me but I saw the building and I said, “Oh no. I’m not living in this dump.” It’s an eyesore to me. And I, I couldn’t, compared to what I was living in. So. Then I went to the Village Apartments in South Orange? I couldn’t wait to leave. ([Clears throat] I don’t like South Orange. And the apartments, their um, recreation room is like a little room. And it, it wasn’t much bigger than this. I think this is a better layup. Alright. So.
This is called--
Jewish Community Housing, but it, it started out as senior housing. And then somehow I few years later, HUDD took it over, so it’s a Section 8 housing. For people who have low income. And what they do is uh, your rent, thirty percent of your income. So here, that’s another plus. I am now gonna have more, with the perio now? It’s starting to hurt me. I have had thousands, thousands of dollars that I have made deferred. I would use their credit, any kind of a credit card, and defer interest? And I would pay it out within two years, three years, five years, that’s how I did it. They, meaning the management, they look at that. And consider that. [Sighs] So. Thank God for that. But I found something, I realized something here. It’s like a Catch 22. If you don’t have medical, dental expenses. Guess what? You’re gonna give it to them. So the perio, which I have this Thursday, she told me already about the gum graft, and I looked it up. It costs sixteen hundred dollars. A tooth. And she was talking about a few. Not the mouth. But a few? So I’m rounding it to six grand. If I use, she at least allows Care Credit. So if I defer it two-- [Phone rings.]
Oh, this I’ll pause for a second. Okay, it was still on hold. Okay, now we’re going. You were saying, it was six thousand?
I went to the perio and I’m figuring hypothetically she said a couple, or a few teeth. I’m thinking six thousand. I hope no more. If I take out a loan from Care Credit, she will be paid. But I also found that they take thirty percent when they use that card. So they lose a little bit, but they can afford that. My dentist won’t allow me to use Care Credit because of that. But she will. The perio will. It comes out to 250 for twenty-four months. I’m better off doing that and doing something where I’m saving the teeth, because the dentist told me, “You have a benefit by doing the grafting. It will save the teeth.” Because the receding gums eventually pull away from the bone and I don’t want to have false teeth-- I have two implants already. But thank God it’s not the implants, there’s something going on there and she, anyway. So. That’s. But you know, honestly… I’m not kidding. With, here, you know, Medicaid? The, this country is terrible. Here they won’t cover hearing aids. Medicare won’t cover any dentistry. A lot of medicines, I’m gonna tell you. I have IBS. I have been recommended medicine for it. We’re talking three, five thousand dollars. For thirty days! And they have these commercials which they’re making a fortune on. And you go and hear about Canada, Europe. They’re not taking care of us at all. Democracy? No, it’s called capitalism. It’s called “take”. And this is what I resent. But I can’t do anything. I have hearing aids. I had to pay that out. And I think they’re not gonna last. Because there’ll be new technology. And I don’t find they’re helping me that much. But. You know. They take claiming, it’s better to have it than to not. And the fear I have at the dentist, I am so obsessed with... Morning, night, I got the water pick, I got the flossing. And there’s only so much you can do. And I have a condition called dry mouth and there’s nothing I can do about it. And that does not help. Can’t prevent the cavities. So. Aging costs. And for seniors? It’s difficult. I, I, I can’t get over-- I looked at what a legal secretary earns now? Between 60 and 80,000. Which is nothing today! I’m not earning anything. I don’t even know, 25. So. I’m in poverty level. But thank God for these programs that let you pay in installments without interest. Of course, if you don’t meet that two year deadline, you’re gonna pay that charge. So.
Now, when you said you don’t make 25, you’re not working as a legal secretary anymore, you’re talking about being--
I’m talking about being--
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I’m talking about my social security.
Oh, social security.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah, you know what I mean.. I mean, it’s not enough.
Right. Right! 25,000 is basically--
Not even 25,000.
Right.
That’s why I’m on PAD.
What’s PAD?
PAD is a pharmaceutical assistance program. From the state of New Jersey who have to be poverty level. But I don’t quality for food stamps. And! Electric? They denied me. You have to make zero. That’s stupid! But they do give me some credit for the weatherization. And I get a doctor’s letter because you know, I, I had a heart attack. And I need the air. So it’s called weatherization and they cover your air conditioning expense, only in the summer.
[Door bell chimes] Let me just see who that is.
[Unclear] Oh, sorry.
Unknown: Good morning!
They shut off the water?
On Tuesday? They made it sound like they shut it off… [rustling] Oh, I see what happened, thank God. I’m supposed to get my medicine! [Laughs] I didn’t, she gave me.
I see.
This is from the-- I thought they were shutting it off now.
Oh, I see.
I think--
That was one of the--
Tuesday.
That was one of your neighbors looking out for you there or?
No, he, he, oh please. You don’t know what I’ve been through here. They banned me since 2015 from the dining room. On all false pretenses. That I wound up so sick from it mentally that I have to see my social worker twice a week. And Harold, who’s the CEO, and Laurie Lockman, those are the two people. I compare them to Hitler. They didn’t even let me sit in the dining room in the Jewish Seder. Until I’ve told them they’re anti-Semitic, and then they’ve threatened me further. By saying if I don’t apologize, you will be banned from everything. I never-- they served me cease and desist orders threatening my eviction. They’re sick people! They don’t like anyone who’s high functioning. Because a lot of these old people, they’re like [groans]. Eeeh, you know, that type of attitude. I know people that have taken them to court. You can’t win with them. I feel they connected. I took her, her to court. And they were talking to the judge somehow. And the judge was so irate, my girlfriend couldn’t believe how he talked to me in front of the whole courtroom. He says, “What do you think, you’re a lawyer using legal lingo?” I should have said, “With due respect, your honor, I expect respect. There’s no need for you to talk this way.” But I don’t think like that. I’ve had my, my fill up here. Probably that’s why I, I don’t go to the dining room. I have no socialization. I’m mostly up here.
What happened in the dining room?
Well, there was a elderly woman. I was sitting on her table. And she was very nasty. But she’s excused. She would soil herself, and food was being served and I had to smell that. And I went to the management. “Oh, we can’t tell people, that’s--” I was so. Then, I said I can’t do this every night! They should get her upstairs and clean! She had a daughter. Instead of the security handling it, she told me to handle it. So I go over to the daughter, she was sitting miles away from her. I tried to, I said, “I’d like to talk to you in private.” I don’t want to mention that in front of people. As soon as I start bringing up, she knew what I was, she started yelling at me? And, in front of the whole table she goes, “Ma! Lydia doesn’t like the way you smell!” So immediately, that very evening, I emailed the site manager and told her what happened? They didn’t talk to me until Thursday, and served me a cease and desist letter. Now. This woman is no longer working. I did the happy dance. I hate her. Because she’s a wimp. And she’s like a puppet. It’s like you talk to her, no. And she knows things are wrong, but she won’t do nothing because she’s got-- I don’t even want to talk to the new one cause. I decided, the best thing is to keep, just stay away. Some people I talk to, and people know that this is terrible, what’s happened to me. And some are thrilled. They’re very nasty people, very very nasty. And some of them are not of sound mind. I’m not saying this as a joke. I go the point where I used to live and play cards. I play Canasta every Saturday. I don’t have any issues with them! Yes, they’re getting a little cuckoo, but we all get a little bit! I don’t have confrontation like I do here. There is something with the people here that are not. They, they don’t shower. Some of them, naked in the elevator. And I can’t accept, “Well, people have a problem”. They can’t help it? Uh-uh. I know that if I soiled myself you better believe I’m in, cleaning up. But the men in particular don’t shower. And I know, in the hair, you can smell it. Somebody sprayed cologne in the elevator. It’s that kind of a place. A-and, I came from a nice-- And you pay, I understand. But they shouldn’t be things like this. And they said it was considered independent? Because HUDD took over, every kind of denomination. They can be nuts, they can be, you know, whatever. There are very few classy people here. And every time I would like to be friendly I can’t, because, I don’t know. They get like, volatile. So. Or they don’t have, they have dementia, oh, they don’t remember. It’s sad! And I’m, you know, and I’m looking for ways to find other avenues so I can be with people like me, and want to do the things I like to do! I like to have fun! I don’t understan-- what is wrong with these people! Fun is not in their vocabulary. I suggest to Gina, and Gina put it down. I said, “You know, Gina, we should have a skit. We should organize, where the seniors can act out, they would have fun, it will elevate their endorphins and whatever.” “No, that’s not for here.” She squashed it. You know why, my feeling? She don’t wanna take responsibility. And I notice that with the JCC that it’s not for me either. And she told me! In my face! “This is not for you, this place.” She didn’t say that three years ago when she wanted me to join. So. But I mean, when I go there. Yes. There are maybe one or two people. But most of them are in a walker, a wheelchair. They have the memory group mixed with us. It’s not right! I, I know I’m going to age and all this but I don’t wanna rush it. I want a little po-- I need positive. I’ve been traumatized all my life with negativity. And what I want is the uplift. I’ve gone through so much therapy training it’s unbelievable. I have a therapist. He uses EMDR and, and tapping and I don’t know if I’m for that but. I do make myself do breathing, especially in the doctor’s office when you’re nervous. So. But getting back to the financial, uh. I will always struggle. And the fear I have, because my son and I are not so close, who’s gonna bury me? And I was thinking, he asked me about life insurance. [Laughs] I found out at seventy, you can’t get whole life unless you pay one thousand a month.
Mm-hmm.
But I have to get something. I don’t know what to do! I don’t have, you know, a lawyer, or anyone to give me advice. I don’t have, really, a family. My son and I, we bump heads together. I don’t feel the love from him. I mean, he’s like, forty-six going on sixteen. I feel I’m still his mommy and not the adult. It’s my turn! I need to be looked after!
So, that’s your, that’s your biggest fear at this point? Is that--
Yeah, I’m always afraid the many times that I felt, if God forbid I got sick, who was gonna be here? I could be lying here for days. I mean, I don’t know, I’m afraid, or, if, you know. If your mental capacity isn’t there, someone has to make decisions for you like I did for my father. If I didn’t do what I did, my father would be, you know. And he had his faculties! But. [Sighs] That’s the fear, I told my therapist, “that’s a very, very big fear.” And when I go to the hospital when I had the colonoscopy and I saw an adult son, and I knew he was talking to a relative, I started crying because my son wouldn’t do that. That’s how I interpret it. Because he, he’s all over an iskabib. He found a girl and, he’s not married because he don’t want the responsibility. And he lives with her! And I’m glad, for one thing, that she grounds him. Not crazy where they live. But. I’m proud of him that he works for Comcast, wasn’t making like he was at Manchulan City Group. But he, he’s moved up in the company, does the business end of the company now, you know, contracts and conditions and salary. So. And he works on, in Princeton, serving in the private parties. So. I tell him that! But. I haven’t seen my son since Thanksgiving. And every time I want to see him? He has me here, and brings me there. I can’t tell you how many times-- and I told my therapist, I need someone besides you that I can talk to! You know, I don’t, I can’t hock her every time! You know, most therapists don’t email each other. She always says, breathe, breathe. That is not-- [laughs]. That’s not the answer! Because, you know, she wants me to break down the emotions? And better handle it? And I’m still... Not understanding all that. But. So. The struggle? I’ll always be struggling. Um. When I go to the dentist and I go for a cleaning and he finds another cavity. So I went for the cleaning, two hundred. I had saved thirty dollars because I had said I don’t want the fluoride treatment. But she said the next time you’re gonna have to get it. He found a cav-cavity, nothing major, but it was two hundred twenty-five dollars. I had to see the perio, that was money. I’m going Thursday, again! You’re talking like six hundred dollars already, I could have bought myself a nice television! I mean, I, I, I haven’t been been on a vacation. I don’t, you know, do shows, I don’t do anything! You know, even in the supermarket, I’m a wreck, “Oh, it’s too much money! I won’t buy it.” It has to either, be on sale, or, cause that’s how I live now. The fe-- and I fight for my money. If I go on Amazon, and, let’s say I have a coffee maker break down. I don’t look just on Amazon, I look at Walmart, Target. Uhm. Amazon. Ebay. And I see who has a better deal? Nobody does what I do. But it’s called survival of the fittest. I’m not rich enough to say, “who cares”. If I overpay, I have to save-- and I’m a coupon. Meaning, you know, if I go out to eat, I have Local Flavor, Li-- Living Social. Groupons not so great. Restaurant.com. You know, if I want to treat myself? It has to be discounted!
How often do you get to go out to eat?
I don’t.
Oh.
Matter of fact, I’ve got a girlfriend who’s got ph-physical issues. But a lot of times when I did go with her, she would always pay for the pizza? It was good like that. Back to the point-- well, she gets. She was a teacher. So she probably gets a nice pension.
How much do you pay for this place?
It varies. It could be five hundred, it could be three hundred. It depends on the expenses. What they do is they pro-rate? And that’s how they figure your income. Not, you know, HUDD does. I don’t know, I’m sure it’s like that with all Section 8. Oh! I left out. I have to pay two hundred fifty-six dollars for the food I don’t like.
For what food?
We-- that’s why I mentioned the dining room. They tell every tenant before you sign the lease, you have to sign a contract that says you’re gonna pay for the food. Otherwise you can’t rent.
But they won’t let you in the dining room?
Yeah.
And you still have to pay for it?
Well, cause I, I, I have to pick it up. And you know how, how you get cheated? I’ll tell you. They give you a box, it’s like a TV dinner. I’ll show you. I’ve gotten where I’ve taken a picture and there’s, there’s a lot of things. I found hair, cause the chef does not wear a hairnet. And Mitchell Goldberg, who’s the supervisor, very difficult to deal with. A lot of people can’t stand him. And uh. They’re not very kind people here. Because, you know, if you kiss their butt, they’ll like you. I’m not. I just, you know, and if I can’t make it, Herb brings it to me. They must have done something where he got, you know.
They brought you dinner?
No, no, it’s packaged!
Right, right, right--
And he’s been doing this since this miserable rule.
So that’s one of your neighbors--
Yeah!
And he brings you--
When I can’t get there.
When you can’t get there.
Lot of times if I’m… earlier I go and pick it up myself.
Well, it’s nice that he brought it to you.
Yeah, well. I do things for him too, like give away food. But he’s… You know, you know how he’s… I don’t think it’s right. You see, I would be, I would have liked to be allowed to eat dinner at the Chabbat, because they put out the white table cloth, they have the challah. I’m banned from that, said it’s, “not a holiday”. You know what. It’s. You know. Doesn’t it feel like I’m in Germany? Because they’re banning me! They banned the Jews from reading, from education, from having a business. How can it not be reminiscent of the same? And they’re doing it to a child of the Holocaust. Who went through so much through my parents. And this is how I get treated. They’re vicious. I wish to God. Know how they say, what do they say, everyone gets their day? I don’t believe it. There were fifty-two attempts to murder Hitler. He survived. There you go. Fifty-two attempts to assassinate him. And, he was in prison before he became chancellor. And they were gonna behead him. And he didn’t get it. Why? So six million Jews had to perish. I’m very connected to the Holocaust. I go into the Holocaust, [unclear] to the counsel? But I don’t go cause it’s far. And yet I’m not allowed to go to Cafe Europa because I wasn’t in the Holocaust. But I was part-- I don’t know.
What’s Cafe Europa?
It is for survivors. Holocaust survivors. They get together, they have lunch, you know, a little get together. A little… festivity.
And where is that?
South Orange. And two people tried to get me in! And the woman said, “No! She has to be actually living it!” And he didn’t agree it was right! And I don’t either! So. It, it’s, you know. What I, I would like to focus more on, I don’t. I’m not thinking like seventy, I’m not. I, I love New York because you can be at any age, you can be dancing in a club, doesn’t matter if you’re ninety! It’s acceptable. But you can’t do that in New Jersey. But I do sing, so.
Yeah! Tell me a little bit about that.
Well--
It’s part of your email address.
Yeah, right. Well. Ever since I was a kid, like I said, I would perform on the stoop. I always loved music. And I know a lot of. Like when I do trivia, I’m pretty-- today I’m, today’s music is a little difficult. I’m not into rap. But, um. My mother did take me, I remember she did take me to somewhere, Madison Square Garden maybe to sing a song. And I remember singing all these sixties songs, Paul Anka, all that. And. I remember on Coney Island there was a recording booth. That record melted! And I remember my mother says, “Sing! Sing!” [Laughs] And uh, I sang a song. But later on when they had karaoke in the eighties? And this has been going on for years! I was, like, scared, and like, my very first song was “Breaking Up His Heart” and I didn’t know how to do it, handle a microphone and all. Well, I started to get ambitious and I was living at the time and he started to pay for my voice lessons. The first teacher was terrible! She wouldn’t allow me to record the session. And that to me was s-- how am I gonna practice! So I got rid of her. And I found another teacher and she, she allowed me. So I did breathing technique. The only thing I heard my father say in her voice teacher, “You’ll never be a recording artist.” How dare you! Well, it eventually… Waned. Because she was this legit, they call these theater people “legit”. I wasn’t looking to be legit. I didn’t want to sing pop music. Um. So, as I, and I practiced my butt off! I was learning these on the cassette, and the words, I didn’t memorize, but. And it took a lot of work. But I, if that’s where I go, if I go to karaoke, I do all the songs that I worked on. And not one, not one. It’s like. There’s always a compliment. So maybe I, I need that validation. But I know I would never make it on The Voice or America’s Got Talent. Cowell, Simon Cowell would rip me to shreds. But I did see an eighty-year-old woman! She was singin’! Sure, she’s not gonna be anybody. But I don't think I have the guts to do that. So. Most people at the JCC, they think I should get my own gig. I’m looking into it, but. You know, I don’t know what equipment. And we’re talking money again! And I have this fear, I don’t know, I’m afraid I guess. Because it’s a responsibility.
When you say they, the people at the JCC say to get your own gig, they’ve heard you sing?
Oh, yeah! Every time a performer comes-- “Oh! She’s a good singer!” And you think they want to hear that? No! When they had a group on the stage in the auditorium there? I happened to be right up front, and the guy on stage with the saxophone? I started singing and he heard me, he said, “Hey, you sound good! Come up here!” I didn’t walk, I ran! And the woman who had the mic, she was a singer. I was shocked, she handed me the microphone! Most of them don’t do that. And I started takin’ over the show! [Laughs] I said, I said this is my calling! And I got right into it, it just like, I was in heaven. With him, with the sax, Oh my God. He said he played for famous people, I believe it. And I wanted a job, give me a job, I said I’ll be a backup singer! But. They think I sound good but I know. I know, I don’t hear, wherever I sing, I always get a compliment from, black, white, orange, yellow. And uh. You know.
Are there any recordings of you singing?
No, I haven’t made a recording, but, um. Whenever there’s a microphone… Unfortunately I don’t know the words. You know, in some sense I don’t know how I remember it. But. What I do is I use a track, and if I could, you know, play with it, I make it my own. Um. So you get comfortable and used to it. But um. I noticed the talent, they’re not talent. A lot of people that they bring? They just… don’t have the personality. A charisma, a, you know. Not that I’m the best. I’m. Look, I found I can do vocalization on Youtube! But dry mouth is holding me, you know. And a guy who sings, he’s. He sings for Frank Sinatra songs. He tells me he buys certain lozenges so they don’t dry out? But there’s certain techniques for avoiding cracking your, crackling.
Well, can you sing a little bit for me into the microphone?
This? This is not a microphone.
[Laughs] It sure is!
But is has no volume!
Oh, no, it does!
Are you sure?
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
Um…
I’m hearing it in my, um, oh! It’s not a, it’s a recording microphone, it’s not amplified--
It’s not an amplifier?
No, it’s not amplified. Yeah.
Um. Now I feel funny to sing. Alright. [singing] What a day this has been, what a rare mood I’m in, why it’s almost like bein’ in love. How was that?
That was good!
But if I had, at one time, a keyboardist who did write the arrangements for me. But uh. You know, right now-- and I did sing in New York. I sang, not as a star attraction, but there’s a place called Don’t Tell Mamas? And all these people, they’re waiters and waitresses, they’re wannabes. And they come and they hang out and, it’s like a jam session. The only thing you had remember was what key it was in. So I had it write down, I lost that card. I don’t know where I put it. But I know key of C is my favorite. Key of E. I don’t know. Like I said, let me sing it, then you can tell me. [Laughs] I sang with Lou Palela, he’s uh. Known to be friends with uh. I can’t think. Peter Paul and Mary but he was a guitarist. I don’t know, I. You know. I wish I could be a backup singer. I mean, they got old people up there when they got the oldies! But I don’t know how to get in, you know?
Well, thank you.
Yes.
I loved hearing your story, it was very--
Yeah, I feel like I gave you my life’s story!
Well, that’s what I asked for! [Laughs] Thank you.
You’re welcome.