Damica
Click here for the full transcript.
Formerly the executive assistant to the president and CEO of a nonprofit, Damica was incarcerated for seven months and lost her job and all of her savings. After her release, it took her four months to find a new job.
Annotations
Child Tax Credit - The costs of raising children are constantly increasing, becoming unaffordable for many families. A Child Tax Credit, which would provide a tax break for all families within a certain level of income who have children, would help ease the costs of providing for children. The federal government has a Child Tax Credit, but the state of New Jersey could implement its own refundable version that would provide even more support for qualifying families.
Transcript Link 2: “So by the time I was 23, I had three kids.”
Context Link 1: https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/policy-basics-the-child-tax-credit
Context Link 2: https://itep.org/new-50-state-analysis-state-child-tax-credits-would-lift-2-1-to-4-5-million-children-out-of-poverty/
Context Link 3: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-child-tax-credit
Economic Security and Minimum Wage - Millions of New Jerseyans have been unable to properly afford their expenses and obligations due to deflated and low pay. Recently, in early 2019, the state signed into law legislation that will increase the minimum wage for most workers by 2024 and all workers (except for tipped workers) by 2029. This will help over a million workers by boosting their pay and have an indirect benefit on hundreds of thousands more further up the income scale as businesses reform their compensation policies and the economy grows due to more residents finally having the ability to fully participate and afford critical purchases.
Transcript Link: “I was like, ‘Why do you keep doing this [selling drugs]? You don’t have to do this.’ But he kept doing it.”
Context Link 1: https://www.njpp.org/reports/a-15-minimum-wage-would-help-over-1-million-workers-and-boost-new-jerseys-economy
Context Link 2: https://www.njpp.org/blog/explainer-new-jerseys-15-minimum-wage-proposal
Re-Entry - A significant challenge to recently released prisoners is re-entry into the labor market. Policies that prepare people returning to society with skills to attain and sustain employment are critical to ensuring their successful reintegration into society, and importantly help reduce recidivism.
Transcript Link 1: “I am grateful that I am even able to have this job because when I first came home, they had denied me.”
Transcript Link 3: “I can’t remember the exact terms [of why I was denied employment], but basically because I was incarcerated.”
Context Link 1: https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/impact-comprehensive-prisoner-re-entry-program-employment-and-recidivism-united-states
Context Link 2: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/research/recidivism_and_reentry/
Context Link 3: https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/indicator/2018/03/prisons-to-communities
Ban the Box - Damica would have benefited "Ban the Box" legislation, which removes the question of whether the job applicant has previously been incarcerated from the initial application. In 2014, the state implemented this law, helping ex-offenders more easily secure employment. In 2017, the state strengthened the law by not only preventing employers from asking about an applicant's criminal history, but also from submitting an online inquiry about any past record.
Transcript Link 1: “It’s hard. Once you’re charged with a crime, most places are going to do a background check on you.”
Context Link: https://www.njspotlight.com/stories/17/12/21/making-it-easier-for-ex-offenders-to-make-a-clean-start/
Economic Security - Emerging research is cementing the fact that good paying jobs improve health outcomes for people. Conversely, poor paying jobs exacerbate health outcomes. As such, when people are unable to provide for themselves and their families - when they are not paid enough to survive - it can have negative impacts on their personal health. High levels of economic security therefore damage overall public health.
Health Care - New Jersey has taken serious steps to protect the gains made under the Affordable Care Act and keep health insurance costs low. This helps ensure that more residents have health coverage so that they are covered for serious health issues.
Context Link 1: https://www.njpp.org/healthcare/new-jerseys-individual-market-premiums-to-be-among-the-lowest-in-the-nation
Welfare - New Jersey has recently begun investing in and increasing the amount of welfare resources for the first time in decades. However, resources still remain inadequate for many residents. Continuing to invest in these resources (such as TANF, WIC, SNAP) will help more people who depend on them to stay out of poverty.
Context Link 1: https://www.cbpp.org/research/family-income-support/tanf-benefits-remain-low-despite-recent-increases-in-some-states
Context Link 2: https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/7-22-16pov-factsheets-nj.pdf
Context Link 3: https://www.njspotlight.com/stories/16/06/29/christie-s-welfare-cuts-leave-nj-safety-net-in-tatters/
Transcript
I was born in 1973 in Youngstown, Ohio, a small, Midwest town. It had a steel mill and used to have a huge GM factory there. And then it all closed down and everything went away, and now it’s kind of like a beat-up, sad town. My sister is a teacher there. We go visit her a couple times a year. It’s sad to go back and see. The house I grew up in is gone. A lot of stuff is boarded up. Things are trying to come back, but it’s slow.
I miss it sometimes, so when we go visit, we take my mom who’s 74 now. It’s kind of bittersweet to see how it’s changed. It was such a great place, and now crime is kind of up, there’s no jobs, and there’s land that’s just empty, warehouses that are empty, mills that are empty. People just abandoned them.
So you lived there until you were how old?
Twelve. Then I moved here to New Brunswick, and I’ve been in New Jersey ever since.
So your whole family moved at that time?
Actually, what happened is my mom got laid off from her job, and my grandmother and grandfather lived here, and my aunt-- my mom’s only sister-- were here in Jersey. So my mom moved here. And I stayed with my older sister who was married and had kids at the time. I didn’t want to leave in the middle of school, so she left me there. And then once sixth grade was over, I moved here. My mom worked two jobs. And she did that up until she retired from Rutgers six years ago.
How many siblings do you have?
There were six of us. One of my brothers died. And my sister who is closest to me is seven years older than me, so that’s why there’s like, a gap. But I’m the youngest of six kids. It’s like The Brady Bunch. Three girls and three boys. [Annotation #1]
Do you remember that time, moving and leaving your friends and everyone behind in Ohio?
Yes. It was so odd. Initially, I remember my mom telling us we had to sell the house because she had got laid off from her job and couldn’t find another one. And so she decided she’d come here to look for a job, and she got a job here and so she was like, “I gotta go.” And I was like, “I’m not going.” I was determined not to come here. I said, “I’m staying with my sister. I’m staying with Carla.” She was like, “You’re not. You’re coming.” It was emotional because like, you’re twelve, so it’s an odd time anyway. My grandfather came and drove me here to New Jersey. I was so mad.
Then I got here, and I was this odd girl with this weird accent to everybody here. And I had my cousin who was a year older than me. She’s from here, born and raised in Jersey. We were really close. When she would come visit, she was like my favorite. But then when I get here, she has a whole life. And then here I come, this kind of green girl from Ohio, and it was like, “Go be with her!” And she was like a wild and free city kid. And I’m just like “Hmm, okay.” Sometimes she would ask me if I wanted to come, and I would just be like, “No, I don’t want to go,” and I would just sit on the porch.
Sometimes I would go and just learn. And I remember there were high rise housing projects there. And I had never seen high rises in person. So, it was amazing to see that, and it was really different. I had visited New Jersey, but I was little, so being twelve and coming here to live was a whole different environment. It was a culture shock, and I had to catch on quick, cause it was a city, and it would eat you alive if you don’t catch on quick.
Then I started seventh grade. During the summer, I did meet a couple of friends, and when I started school, that’s when it kind of changed and I started to really get acclimated with New Jersey. But every summer for two years, I went to visit Ohio to stay with my sister because I still wanted to see my friends. It was odd. But I got past it. By the time I was 15. I was kind of a like a Jersey girl from there on.
So, it was more of a small town where you came from?
Youngstown was medium-sized. It was not like a super big town. People were quite close. Where we lived, everybody knew each other. My mom had six kids, so everybody knew my brothers and sisters. It was different coming from that town and knowing everybody, to coming here and being the girl where people would be like, “Say this.” I remember speaking, and I wouldn’t say “thing.” I was like, “No, the thang. The thang…” And they would make me say that. [Laughs]
Cause of your accent.
Yeah. I was like a science project. But it was cool. I remember one funny thing. When I realized, “I guess I have to go to New Jersey.” I remember going with my friends when I was in Ohio. And we went to the store and I got this rap magazine with all the words that city people supposedly said. I was trying to learn like the rap lingo. [Laughs]
So you would be prepared when you arrived here...
And obviously none of it worked.
Did you try some of it out when you got here?
I tried, and my cousin was like, “You’re corny. Nobody talks like that.” [Laughs] So she thought I was even more weird once I got here. She was one of the cool kids, but after she realized I can kind of be cool a little bit, she kind of let me hang out with her. It took until I was like, really into seventh grade, maybe closer to eighth grade, before she started hanging out with me. After she told me to knock it off with the rap lingo. [Laughs]
So remind me again. You came here with your mom, and your grandfather was here, your cousin, and who else?
Basically what happened was my grandmother, my grandfather, and my aunt had moved to New Jersey in like, 1966. They were all originally from Ohio. Actually, my great-grandmother and my great-grandfather migrated from Georgia because he found a job on the Ohio railroad. And my mom was born in Georgia, but she moved to Ohio when she was like, two. So they were all there. And then in 1966, my grandmother, my aunt, and my grandfather moved here to Somerset. My mom stayed in Ohio. She worked, had kids, and was married.
What was she doing in Ohio? What kind of work?
She had two jobs. She was a waitress in a restaurant and then at night she worked at city hall, where she cleaned the building. She was a janitor, basically. For years she was there. But she took care of us. She bought a house. We never had that situation where it’s like we didn’t have food in the refrigerator. I remember people coming to borrow food from my mom when they didn’t have anything. She was always a provider, and I think it comes from my grandmother, and her mother. It was always an abundance. And I think that’s why she always worked so hard and always had two jobs. She had six kids, and she didn’t have a husband anymore after a while. And she made sure we had everything.
Wow! Raising six kids on her own, and you weren’t struggling growing up.
She said it was a struggle, but we never felt that. Ever. Even my older brothers and sisters. There was never a time when they didn’t have new shoes. She always had a washing machine. She always had a television. But I know that she worked really hard, super hard to make sure of that. I know sometimes she probably went without things she probably wanted to make sure we had it. I just know that she worked all the time. Because she would work one job, and she would get off, and she would go to the other job. She would be home for a couple hours and then by the time I got out of school, I usually didn’t see her until the nighttime. So I kind of had to fend for myself, but my mother always made sure it was good.
I remember I had a friend who I used to have to give food to because her mom would leave her for days, and she and her sisters wouldn’t have food. So I would steal food out of my refrigerator and cabinets and go take it to her. I would go to the little corner store with the money my mom would give me and buy noodles and candy and cookies to give to her and her sister. I guess I was in eighth grade at that time. I didn’t understand how they literally had no food. They had like water in their refrigerator. I was like, “What?!” I would bring them to my house to eat, and my mom cooked dinner. She would prepare dinner before she went to her other job, and I would feed them.
I didn’t ever want to see somebody not eat or not have the essential things that they needed. At a young age, I was just like, “How does she not have?” But we never know what other people are going through, I guess.
So, your mom lost both her jobs in Ohio?
The restaurant closed, and she got laid off from the other one. At first, we thought she was going to get the job back, but they never gave her her job back, and then we were behind on the mortgage of the house, so I think she sold it. I don’t even know exactly what happened. I never asked that question, but we didn’t have the house anymore.
So she lost both jobs, and it seemed like the economy was bad out there, it didn’t look like she’d be able to find another job out in that area, so that’s why she decided to come to New Jersey?
And I think, too, my grandmother really wanted her to come here. My grandmother only had my aunt and my mom. That’s it. No other kids. So, I think my grandmother kind of encouraged her to come here. She was like, “You’ll find a job. It’s New Jersey. There’s so much going on, you won’t have to worry about a job.” And she came here. She got a job.
Doing what?
Initially when she came here, she worked in a factory. And months later, she got a job at Rutgers, and she worked there until she retired. And the other job, she worked at a school at night and she cleaned there too. She cleaned in both places. She always worked two jobs. And at one point, I think she was working three jobs. Certain weekends I think she would go work for this lady. She would do stuff for the lady at her house.
So you moved here. It took a while, but you eventually made friends and got used to the area and started to fit in. Do you remember around that age what it was like? Did you have visions of when you grew up, what you wanted to do or what your dreams were?
Yeah. I always thought that at some point I would go to college for nursing or something medical. In my head, I always felt like I was going to work in a hospital. I remember I wanted to go to Hampton University in Virginia. That’s where I wanted to go. [Laughs]
Why?
I don’t know. I remember seeing it was an HBCU [historically black university]. And it was cool they had band. [Laughs] I didn’t play any instrument, but I just thought it was cool.
So how did you imagine your life? Did you think you would have kids?
One kid. Because I wasn’t really keen on kids. But I figured I would have a house and a kid and a husband, and we would have a nice life.
So, you went through school. You graduated high school?
I graduated from high school. I went for a little bit to a training program. I went for medical. I was going to do medical assisting. But then, right after I graduated from high school, I was pregnant with my daughter. I had my daughter the next year in March.
You were what? Like eighteen or so?
Eighteen, uh huh..
Who was the father? Where did you meet him?
We grew up together, basically. And he was my boyfriend, and we had a daughter. And then we didn’t like each other.
How long after your daughter was born?
Oh, before I had her.
You broke up before you had her?
Yeah. I found out I was pregnant with her, and then I was dating somebody else at the time. The other guy I was dating, he was like a friend. And he basically stayed around, and helped take care of her. Her dad helped take care of her too, and then he got in trouble and went to jail, but that’s a long story.
And then in ’93, in May, I had my son with the guy who took care of my daughter. So I had two kids by the time I was 19. And then I moved out, we got an apartment. Two years after that, I had a [second] son. So by the time I was 23, I had three kids. I had my son in 1995 and [my son’s father] went to jail in 1997, and he’s been in jail ever since. [Annotation #1]
Do you mind if I ask for what?
Drugs and guns and things like that.
And your kids… were you planning to have these kids or did it just kind of happen?
[Laughs] No. Basically, we had an apartment. We lived in Piscataway. It was nice. I took care of them. They never not had food. They always had clothes, shoes, everything. And I kept my house clean. Everything we needed, it was there. That’s not normal, but at the time, I was thinking…
What’s not normal?
I had three kids at 23. I didn’t get to go to college like I wanted to. But I was living like it was fine. I had a car, and I had an apartment, and I had the kids, so it was as if I was married to him, and then it was okay, but the situation wasn’t really okay now that I look at it. Even before, I knew in my head it wasn’t okay, but I was just making it okay for the kids. And trying to like, make a happy house and take care of them. And not be on welfare, and not have to depend on the system of the government or anybody to take care of them. I never wanted that. So I made sure I went to work.
He worked sometimes and then he did other things that weren’t legal to make sure that we had things. So that’s what happened. He was a drug dealer. That’s what he did, other than going to work when he did. So, we basically always had money to take care of the kids, so I didn’t have to think about that. In my head, it was like, I’m taking care of them.
Did you suspect that your kids’ father was dealing drugs on the side, at the time?
I knew, yeah. I didn’t like that either. I was like, “Why do you keep doing this? You don’t have to do this.” But he kept doing it. [Annotation #2]
Because he wasn’t making enough with his regular job?
Right. I was like, “I’ll go work.” He was like, “You’ve got three kids. What kind of work are you gonna do?” So I guess I rationalized it away, and I just tried to not look at it. I didn’t like what he did. I always used to try to tell him we could start a business or we could do something else. You don’t have to do that. But I think it became just like easy. That’s what happened. And then he went to jail. So then I was left as a single mom with three kids.
So when he went to jail, how did that affect all of you?
It was unbelievable. It was hard. Overwhelming. But I moved back to the house with my mom, and they helped. And then a year after I moved in with them, my family bought a two family house, and we’ve been in a two family house ever since. So I have the downstairs, and my sister lives upstairs.
How long has your kids’ father been in prison? How long is the sentence?
He’s been in there 20 years, and he’s going to be in there at least for another five years.
So after he went to prison, you had to find some work, I guess, to support your kids?
Yeah. So I went to the unemployment office and said I want to take a class. I don’t have a job. I’m not going to apply for any welfare, and I want to take a training class. And at first they said, “Well, you can’t really do that,” and I was like, “Yeah I can, and I need somebody to help me. Who do I need to talk to?” And so I guess this lady felt for me, and she got me into a training program at Middlesex County College. And I went there and did secretarial training. And I went there for like six months. I temped for a little bit, and then I got a permanent job at the place that I worked for seventeen years.
Doing what?
Executive Assistant to the President and CEO of a nonprofit organization. And it provided what I needed. Sometimes I would do odds and ends and second jobs, but it worked out. I feel blessed in that way that it was not always easy, but we took care of each other. Like I said, I was grateful for my family that they were able to. It worked out that way.
And then you were telling me before this interview that one of your kids got into trouble?
Last year, my [older] son got into an altercation. There was a shooting, and both my son and me got locked up. And I was in jail for seven months. He’s going to be in jail for four years. In the process of them looking for my son, they said that I helped him. And they basically charged me with the same exact crime that they charged my son with. It’s ludicrous. At the end of the day, I got charged with hindering the apprehension of my son, even though that’s not quite the truth. But, you know, the justice system is something different. And so that’s what happened. I lost my job. I lost all of my savings that I had basically.
On legal fees?
Lawyers and just having to cover the bills while I was gone because I was locked up for seven months. So the money that I had had to go to make sure that everything was still functioning as normal as possible. I guess I’m grateful that I was able to have that, but now I have no savings, and now I work for a job where I make seventeen dollars an hour and it’s difficult. But I am grateful that I am even able to have this job because when I first came home, they had denied me. [Annotation #3]
Actually, I had left my job that I was at for seventeen years because it went from like eight people to two of us with the President and CEO and myself. And she was almost not even able to pay my salary. So I looked for another job, got another job, and I was only at that job for a year when this thing happened. And then I was locked up. They couldn’t hold my job, so I lost that. And when I came home seven months later, I tried to get unemployment, but they denied it, because if you get arrested, you can’t always technically qualify for unemployment. So I was without money up until I got a job in January. [Annotation #3]
I’m grateful for my daughter and my other son, my sister and my mom because… [crying] my daughter who’s 26, my [younger] son who’s 22, and my sister… they like took care of everything while all this was happening. Like I said, I think my family is just the kind of family that we’re just going to make sure each other’s okay. And my daughter who graduated... She was living in her own apartment. The little savings that I had, I told her to use it, and she was trying her best not to, so she was working two jobs. And my son was going to Middlesex, so he had to stop because he had to help out and get a job to pay the bills. So between my savings and him and my daughter and my mom who was on a fixed income, [they were all] trying to keep it together. And they did that. But then when I came home, I felt bad. I felt guilty ‘cause they truly didn’t have to do any of that. And they did it.
[Emotional] They paid for my lawyer. Everybody was trying to help. It was just a hard situation, and I’m grateful for my family because, really, I came home and I had nothing. I could never repay them. Ever, in life. So now here I am. And I finally was able to find a job, and I’m trying to get myself back together.
So you were incarcerated for seven months?
Yes.
I’m sure it’s stressful going through all that.
I had never even had a speeding ticket. So I almost felt like I was out of my own body, if that makes sense. It was like I couldn’t believe this was happening to me. And I remember the first night that they took me to the county jail and they give you this green outfit to put on. They take your clothes, and they process you in and put you in a cell. And the first three to five days you’re there, you’re locked inside of the cell from the time you get there until three o’clock in the afternoon. So, if you get there at midnight or if you get there in the middle of the night, they give you your meal and you’re in the cell, and it’s like a little door with a little window, a hatch, that they can open. You get your meal and you eat in there. You spend all your day in there until three o’clock. And then when you come out at three o’clock, you get to use the phone or take a shower, or whatever.
It was not the most sanitary place to be. You sleep on a mat that’s on a metal bed. You have a metal table that you put your stuff on. They give you a little soap, a washcloth and a towel, a toothbrush, a little toothpaste, and that’s it. That’s what you live off of. Unless you have a family. My family sent me money. I’ve seen [other people] in there who didn’t get anything. So they had to keep using the same stuff that they give you. It’s bad, it’s bad. And there’s 26 cells. And at one point it was like 70 women, so it was crowded.
And you have a room where you can sit, and there’s one tv and people were playing cards. And the women are segregated because it’s a men’s jail. So women have no movement. You’re in that space the entire time. They’re fighting and arguing. When you picture a jail, I know that sometimes on TV, you think that it’s the worst. I’m not saying it’s the best place, but it’s not like what you see on TV, for the most part. I met some women there who were amazing people, just in bad situations.
Sometimes you’re judged based on your circumstance, but all the people in there weren’t bad people. Most of the women that were in there were addicted to something. Jail was not technically where they need to be because they kept coming back. So obviously that’s not working. And they kept bringing these women back to jail over and over again. I was there seven months, and this one lady came back seven times. The same woman. Like she was continually getting locked up, and they would let her out, and she would come back in. I had never been locked up once, and they wouldn’t let me out. Like I understand the situation, but it was just like, this is really not working. It was just an eye-opener, a shocker, and it made me appreciate my life more and not complain about so much. It made me see the law in a different light.
And it was a shock to be locked into a place and not be able to move or get out. And not even be able to go to a refrigerator and things like that. So I really learned to appreciate not having much and living off less. And not thinking that everyone is living the way I am. Not that I had a lot, but some of those women said they slept outside of the train station. And I worked right around the corner from the train station for seventeen years, and I couldn’t believe that. So when you think your situation is dire, you always look at somebody else’s, and you say your worst day is somebody’s best day.
I couldn’t eat, though. The food was disgusting, and I don’t think they cared that the food was disgusting. Sometimes the trays that they brought your food on weren’t clean. Nobody cared. If you were able to and if you had money that your family sent you, you could order off of the commissary. But I didn’t want to order, and I barely could eat. I lost about thirty pounds when I was in there because of the thought of what we were going through, and I barely had an appetite.
For a long time, I was just in a state of shock of my situation, but also just sitting there and watching the way that the jail was run and how a lot of times, most of those people needed mental help instead of just being locked up in the jail and being medicated. Because they were also medicating them. Women could say that they were having anxiety problems, and they would give them these things to make them feel like they were high. So for the person who’s addicted to drugs, you’re giving them things to make them feel high and you think that’s okay, but that’s kind of what was going on in there and those are the things that really shocked me, because I would have never thought that happened. Like there were young girls who were young and addicted to heroin. It was a sad situation.
I learned a lot. I saw things that I never thought I would see. I talked to people that I probably would never otherwise talk to. I made a few friends with people I would otherwise never have. One was a veterinarian. She was drinking and driving for the second or third time and had to do six months in jail. There were two women that I met like that. One woman was a grandmother. And one girl I met had a great family, but she got in trouble and she was pregnant while she was in there. I learned most importantly that you can’t judge people based on that situation that they’re in jail, cause there’s a bad situation, but not always a bad person.
Again, I’m not saying that everybody shouldn’t be jailed, but you can’t judge people based on where they’re at. Even for myself, I’m not a bad person. I just was in this situation that was a very horrible situation, but I’m not a bad person.
Do you remember the day you were released?
Yes. It was three days after my birthday. September 29th. I didn’t know I was getting released. I went to court. My son and me basically went there...
The son who was also incarcerated?
Yeah. He basically took a plea deal, and part of it was, let my mother out, because she shouldn’t be locked up anyway. That day the judge released me, but what happens when you’re released is you have to go back to the jail, and at some point during that day, they let you out. And at that point being in there for seven months, I had built a rapport with a few of the women who had been in there. I didn’t tell everybody I was going home, but once they saw that I was packing my things, they were like, “You’re leaving?” “You’re going home?”
I gave away the stuff that I had in there. I didn’t want to take any of that. And then I called my sister. She said they were on their way to pick me up. I remember she said there was traffic, and she said just to wait there and I was like “No! I’m not waiting here.” So I remember when they released me, I had my bag with my books and my release papers and a few things that I needed and some of the letters that people had written to me. And I started walking up this long road because I refused to sit and wait for her to come get me. And I saw this girl who was coming to visit somebody. I didn’t notice who she was because I was just trying to get as far away as possible. And the car turned around, and she was like, “Hi.” And I was like, “Hello.” And I just kept walking. She knew my son. Cause she went to school with him and she knew that I had gotten locked up. People knew. And she was like, “Do you need to call somebody,” and I was like, “Yes, please.” And she let me use her phone.
I called my sister. She was like, “[Your daughter’s] on her way. She’ll probably get to you before me.” I told her I was going to be at the Walgreens across the highway, and she was like, “Why are you walking? And whose phone is this?” I said I had to get away from here, so tell her to come to Walgreens and please bring me pizza and a hot coffee.
I got to Walgreens, and I was out there with this bag. And my daughter pulls up. And they have pizza and a hot coffee and a change of clothes because I didn’t want to wear the clothes I had on. I hugged them. My son and my daughter were in the car, and it was so emotional. It was almost unbelievable that I was out of there, because seven months in there probably seemed like triple that. I used to look out the little window and picture myself leaving, so being out of there on the other side and looking down that dirt road, I held onto them. And then my sister pulled up as I was hugging my daughter and my son. It was such an amazing feeling.
It was bittersweet because my son is still inside there. My older son. But I was grateful and relieved.
And they didn’t tell my mom [that I was released], so when we drove up, they went in the house first. And they said, “Grandma, how are you doing?” And they started talking about me. And she was like, “Yeah, I just want her to come home!” And I was walking through the house, and then she turned around, and at first she looked at me [laughs], and then she screamed. “Oh my God!” And I hugged her and kissed her. She says, “You could have gave me a heart attack!” She was like, “Why didn’t anybody tell me?” It was emotional, and it was amazing.
It was bittersweet again, because that’s one of my worst nightmares. To have kids young and to go to jail. But [my son] is okay. I talk to him every day. Or every other day he calls, at least. And then they have this thing where they can send emails. They have these little tablets now. So he can send us messages, and we can message him back. It makes me feel good, and I can also visit him on weekends.
How often do you visit him?
Every other weekend, or twice a month, if I can. Somebody always visits him. He’s in Annandale, New Jersey in a jail there. It’s like 30 minutes away. So it’s kind of west. It’s a little town right off Rt. 78, so it’s not too far. I go see him. He’s in good spirits.
And how are your other two kids doing?
Good. My daughter is now going back to school for nursing. She has her bachelor’s degree in public health. And my [youngest] son is doing okay. He was working through an agency, and now that’s over. And so now it’s a struggle for him. He wants to work in hospitality and culinary. I feel really guilty about that part. So I’m just trying to help him.
Everybody is slowly getting back to normal. It just takes time to get back on your feet.
So, how long have you been out of jail now?
8 months.
And what has that been like for you since then, being back here on the outside? You’ve kind of pressed the reset button. You’re starting over from scratch.
Literally, that’s how it feels. That forever changed me, that situation and being in there. I’ll never look at life the same again. But I feel better. I used to have this anxiety thing in my stomach if I had a money issue. I’m like a worrier until I fix it. Usually I’m just worrying myself for no reason because it’s always going to work out. But I don’t do that anymore. I think it’s because when I sat in that place, for all that time, not knowing what was going to happen with me, I prayed a lot. I think that helped me get past whatever anxiety issues I was having, because that’s what I felt like it was. And I really don’t have that anymore. And whatever happens, it happens now. And I’m just grateful for the day. And I’m able to wake up today, and I am free, and I’m able to take care of the things I can take care of. And I can’t worry about the things that I can’t take care of, because I know that they will work themselves out. So I refuse to be a worrier, and I refuse to let that hold me back from doing what I want to do.
I feel like, even though I lost my savings and all these other things, I gained a new me. The side of me that I needed to come out came out of me. And I feel better than I used to. I know that’s crazy coming out of jail, but I feel like a layer of something came off of me The pressure of trying to be just everything to everybody. Cause that’s my nature, to try to take care of everybody. Every day, I wake up, and I appreciate life in a whole different way.
So, it changed my perspective on a lot of things. When people get in trouble, what they’re locked up for [is not always] what happened. It’s two totally different things. That’s really one of the things that tugs at my heart, and I feel like I need to do something to help people through situations like that.
The system says you’re innocent until proven guilty but in all actuality, that’s not the truth. You’re guilty first. You’re guilty of exactly what they said you did. So I’m just trying to figure out what my calling is and what I’m supposed to do because I feel like this whole situation happened, and I need to do something meaningful with it. I’m not sure what yet, though.
It’s in my head every day when I wake up and I still think about some of the ladies who are still in there. That have been there. Some of them are not coming home.
What has the process been like, when you come out of jail and start looking for work again? How do you go about that, and how difficult is it?
It’s hard. Once you’re charged with a crime, most places are going to do a background check on you. [Annotation #4]
Was it a felony you were charged with?
Yeah. It’s a felony. Hindering apprehension is a felony, so I have to try to get this expunged off my record. But in the meantime, looking for a job, when you’ve got to fill out that paper, even if they don’t ask you to check this box if you’ve committed a felony, sometimes in order to get past a certain level, they are going to automatically do a background check on you, so you’re excluded from a job. I remember not too long ago, before I got this job, my friend told me, they hire for Rutgers. I’m an executive assistant. I can do secretarial work without even a thought. They needed people, so my friend recommended me to fill out the application for the agency that hires for Rutgers and they never called me back. And she was like, “They never called you?” And I said no. And she kind of knew somebody, and she said that allegedly my background check came back and that’s probably why they didn’t call me.
And then somebody told me that that doesn’t technically exclude you from certain jobs, but it’s their preference. If they want to hire you, they can. If they don’t, they simply don’t have to. They can use any reason or they just don’t have to call you back.
They just see what’s on paper. You don’t get a chance to explain yourself. Do they even know what the charge is?
It may say the charge. But it’s this online thing you fill out for the background check. Even when I was filling it out, in my head I was like, there’s not going to go for this. In my head, I knew it. So when people come out of jail, it’s going to be hard for them. So then how do you get money? And then what do you do? Some people are not going to just so happen to find a job or may not have a family who can help pay the bills until you find a job. How long is it going to take somebody to hire you? I know there are some places that hire felons, but it’s still a process. You’re not guaranteed, because people can choose to pick you or not. You’re just hoping and praying that somebody calls you. [Annotation #4]
I’m grateful that I can have a care to drive to work and back. That doesn’t always happen for everybody else. I feel fortunate in that aspect. That’s why I said I refuse to complain about things because it could be way worse. Some people won’t be able to have the patience to find a job because they don’t have the support system that I had.
It makes me a little upset to even talk about it because I know that that’s happened to people. I hear stories. They give up sometimes and they just go back to the streets or go back to whatever. Because they feel like there is no hope. Or they’re homeless and sleep at the train station. They don’t have families. They don’t have people who can take them in.
So, you’ve managed to find a job now. How long did it take you to get that, and what are you doing?
Almost 4 months. I’m a front desk receptionist for a company. We’re the middle man between the warehouses and the companies that need the manufacturing done. So we do the bookkeeping and all the back office stuff for these companies. I also approve the bills to be paid. It’s not far from here. It’s a decent job. Some days I’m bored, but it’s a job, and again, I appreciate it. I don’t think they even looked at my background, and if they did, it didn’t matter.
It’s very diverse, which I love. Diversity is very important to me. And the people there are very friendly. There’s every kind of person you could think of that works in that building in that company. If they did look at anybody’s background, I think it was based on what you said when you interviewed with them, not based on what’s on that paper.
That’s the other question. Even if they didn’t do a background check, if you give a resume but you have a big gap on it -- yours was just seven months, so that wasn’t as long as some people -- but sometimes people might ask questions about why there is a big gap there. I imagine that could cause problems.
Absolutely. What do you do with that? And how do you explain that away? Do you lie? Do you tell the truth and still hope that you can prove yourself or sell yourself enough to gain this job? I try not to lie. I try to tell people don’t lie, because sometimes that will come back and eat you up later. So what do you do?
You have to be very strategic. You have to be able to sell yourself. It was a little gap, so I just said I had a family situation, and they couldn’t hold my job. It was really the truth, so that was my explanation for it: a little in-between time. And they hired me. I interviewed on a Monday, and she called me back the next day. So I’m grateful. It doesn’t always work that way.
But you’re being paid a lot less now than you were in your old job?
Yeah. It’s different. [Laughs] It’s different. But I’m getting a check.
Well it’s a starting point, right? You could use this to then get something else to work your way back up.
Right. And right now, I’m actually taking online classes. Because when they denied me unemployment, I said I’m going to take some classes since I’m not working, because at that time I hadn’t found a job yet. And they said, “Okay, you have to take a placement test.” And I was like, “Alright. I think I’m going to take medical billing and calling.” And they had an option for that. I signed up for it, and that’s what I’m doing right now. I started in January, and I’ll be done next month. It worked out, because I felt like since they denied me unemployment they should help me in some type of way.
Can you explain why they denied you unemployment?
I can’t remember the exact terms, but basically because I was incarcerated. It was like I quit, like it was my fault. Usually if it’s a no fault situation, they won’t deny you, but I guess I got myself locked up, so the job didn’t have to pay my unemployment. I was like, “Fine.” I didn’t even push the issue. They were like, “You can appeal it.” I was like, “Yeah, I’m good.” And I just kept looking for a job. Every single day. Just kept applying, applying, applying. Contacting agencies, whatever. And that’s how I got this job. I guess they liked me. I’m there until further notice. [Annotation #3]
You’ve been there how long now?
Almost 5 months.
What is your situation like now?
I’m broke. [Laughs] That’s basically it. I mean, I’m able to pay my bills.
You’re supporting yourself and your one son who is living with you?
Yeah. And, he does temping jobs, but they don’t always [call him]. But we take care of each other. It’s tough because my check is way less.
It’s a different standard of living than you’re used to.
I’ve had to really downsize that life. The essentials are what we get. [I’ve had to give up] all the extras that we would probably get before or shopping like I used to do, because I love shoes. [Laughs] Some things like that. But we’re fine. We’re maintaining. But it’s not at all like what it was before. Not at all.
What sorts of specific things are you struggling with now financially?
There’s just enough to pay my bills, so that’s a struggle in itself. I’m used to having a certain amount of money where I can pay my bills and I’ll have something left over. Even if I don’t plan to go buy anything, it’s nice to have something. I have no money to save, so everything is paying for gas, the electric bill, water bill, car payments, and we buy food. And soap. The things we need. Other than that, that’s it. I don’t buy lunch. I pack my lunch or I don’t eat ‘til I get home. I have food in the house, but I don’t go buy extra stuff or go out to eat. I don’t do that type of thing. I think I’ve been to the movies once. [Laughs] The things that we used to do, those extra things, are not happening. I used to be able to take a vacation with my sister like once a year. That’s not happening and I don’t know when that will happen again. Things have really changed. [Annotation #5]
I’m okay. Like I said, I learned to live with way less when I was in that place, so it’s okay. I’m able to pay my bills, and I’m able to pay the water bill. Sometimes I have to stretch the check. I’m really living from paycheck to paycheck. I have nothing saved, so I just have to make sure my bank account is not negative. I didn’t really have to worry about that before, so that’s different for me.
What about healthcare? Are you getting health insurance with your job?
No. I can’t afford it. My daughter is a case manager for a clinic, so she helped me to sign up for Medicaid. I got that recently, so I am going to the doctor for that. My son lost his insurance too, so he had to get Medicaid as well because he was on my insurance. That’s the only insurance I have. I couldn’t afford to get the insurance from my job because it would have took money out of my check that I need. So I couldn’t afford it. [Annotation #6]
What about the psychological impact of struggling financially? Is that stressful at times, knowing you might just have barely enough money to pay for something?
I’m not going to stress about it. I know I’m going to figure it out. I’m going to make a way. If I have to work two jobs, then that’s what I will do. I know I’m going to work through this process. I’m determined, and that’s my ultimate goal: just to get myself back together. Stressing about it is not going to bring it to me. It’s going to make it feel harder, so I refuse to do that. Even when it is difficult and there are those days when I look at my bank account and there’s like thirty dollars there, and I’m like, Well, you know what? I paid every bill and I will keep those thirty dollars in there [laughs] until my next check comes.
If that would have happened to me a year ago or a year and a half ago, I probably would have been like “Arrrggghh!” Not anymore. I can’t stress about what I don’t have to because it’s not going to help me.
Have you ever had to look into other resources if you needed help, like if you don’t have food, go to a food pantry, or if you don’t have enough money to pay a bill, ask a friend for a personal loan or something? Have you ever had to do anything like that?
Honestly, right now, my gas/electric bill is behind. I went to them to help me, and they have this program and it helps you with your bill. You fill out these forms, and you put your income on it, and they said I make too much money [laughs]. And I was like, “Wait a second. Did I read this right?” I had to list who lives in the house, so I listed me, my son, and my mom. My son doesn’t have income. My mom gets her pension. But it doesn’t make sense if I’m telling you I’m behind. So they denied me. That’s fine. I was like, okay. So I just made a payment plan with PSE&G. I’m going to figure it out.
That’s interesting because that’s actually kind of the focus of this whole project. We’re looking at people who maybe are technically above the poverty line, but they still make below a living wage…
Yes. You can’t live!
And so people say you’re not below the poverty line, so you make too much to get these benefits. But you’re still really struggling so you kind of fall between the cracks.
That’s exactly what happened to me. I was amazed. I was shocked. I did get help, when I first came home. I told you my daughter is a case manager. They gave me food stamps because I had no money. Like literally nothing. And I got a couple of hundred dollars of food stamps. It was like 190 dollars a month, but it helped because I was able to put food in the house. So they gave me those for a couple of months, and then once I started working, you can’t get them anymore. So they’re gone. And I’m fine with that. You know, I appreciated that help. Other than that, my sister helped. My mom is there, so she helped too. My daughter would come and bring groceries over to me and I would be like, “Oh my God, this is so amazing, bringing food and taking me out.” I think it was too because they were trying to make sure I was okay.
We’re a really small, tight family so if I did really need something, I know I could go to my sister and my other sister in Ohio.
You have that safety net.
Yeah. But I try really hard not to ask them. My sister who lives in Ohio is a teacher. She actually sent me money when I first came home. And I was like, “Why would you send this money? I have to pay you back.” She was like, “Yeah, okay. Whenever.” I guess she didn’t want to argue. She was like, “I’m just going to say okay and leave it at that.” So she sent me money and that worked out. I guess that was some help that I got that helped me get through because I had zero. And like you said, these people say that you make too much money, and I’m like, “We live in New Jersey, one of the most expensive places to live. And maybe it looks like I make this amount of money, but if you compare, I’m just at that point [of poverty] and I still can’t get the help.” And it was always like that, even with kids. I didn’t even try most of the time for certain programs because based on I guess my income, I wouldn’t qualify for it. But it still felt stupid because it’s New Jersey. You’re barely making it if you’re not making a certain amount of money here. But it doesn’t work like that I guess. [Annotation #7]
Do you know any other people who are struggling financially? Do you see this as just you, or do you see yourself as part of a larger trend?
We live in New Jersey! [Laughs] Again, you know, even my friends who are married. They do fine, but it’s still a struggle. And I know people who are struggling really hard trying to make it and living paycheck to paycheck. Everything is so much more expensive. Even gas. Look how much gas is if you have to go to work. And milk. The smallest essentials are so expensive. And if you’re only making a certain amount of money, you have to think about what you need versus what you want. And sometimes you’re not even going to be able to get all the things that you need. I know people who are going through that and worse than me. I know it’s not just me, and it’s not just here in New Jersey. But here it’s even tougher, I feel, because of the cost of living.
We spent a lot of time talking about you growing up and how you got to where you are today. If you could hop in a time machine and go back and talk to your younger self, is there any kind of word of advice you would give yourself?
Oh, so much! [Laughs] Oh boy. I guess I would tell Damica to believe in herself more and learn how to take care of herself before trying to take care of other people. Because even as a younger person, I was always feeling that I had to take care of everybody. I feel like I would have been better for everyone else if I would have focused more on me being healthy from inside out. And in some ways, I feel like me going to jail helped me become healthy from the inside out. Because I had nothing, so I felt like I was stripped.
When I had the kids I always worried about them getting in trouble. “You’ve got to go to school and you’ve got to go to college.” And I wasn’t even going to college. I was just working to make sure they did everything and not really focusing on what I really wanted for myself. So I would focus on Damica a little more. Maybe that’s a little selfish but… [laughs].
Is there anything that you feel like you know now that you wish you knew then?
That I’m a smart person. I was hard on myself because I had my kids early. So, if I could rewind a little bit to that point, even though I had them early, I guess it is what it is. But I beat myself up a little bit when they were little, because it was like I wasn’t being able to provide them with what I thought kids deserved. They didn’t need anything, but it wasn’t a normal situation. So if I could rewind it to that point, I still would still have my kids maybe, but I think I would have been a better [parent] in a different circumstance.
You wish you would have waited a little later?
Or even make sense of why I thought it was okay to just stay in that situation as long as I did. That part of my life, having them so young and not being in a healthy relationship or a healthy situation. So in a lot of ways, I feel like that’s where my life paused and then I kind of messed it up. I tried to overcompensate by doing all this stuff for my kids, but it still wasn’t enough.
They grew up and they didn’t miss out on anything, but then they kind of did because they didn’t have their fathers the way that they needed to have their fathers, and I blame myself.
You didn’t realize all that at the time.
No. I didn’t.
So all the circumstances that led to you going to jail just seem like bad luck and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is there anything, looking back, that you think you could have or would have done differently so you wouldn’t have gotten to where you are now, or was it kind of beyond your control?
Nothing differently. I feel like the spiritual part of me says that whatever is meant to happen is going to happen, and maybe if I wasn’t there, it could have been way worse. I came to an understanding that, for whatever reason, God put me there. He wanted me to learn something from that. And my son. It was meant to teach us and to grow us. Because I always say this situation is bigger than us in a way that we became closer, spiritually. We became closer as a family. It broadened my scope of life and how I look at things and to stress less. I don’t stress about stuff that I was stressed about before. And I don’t know how or why that happened, but I guess it was meant for that to happen. I learned and I got something from it. So did I want it to happen? Hell no. But it happened, and I can’t change it, and I’m grateful for what I learned from it and what I got out of it. I learned a lot about myself and the strength in me and even the weaknesses in me. It was a lesson.
So you’ve kind of started back over, but you’re also taking these medical classes on the side. Are you hopeful of the direction things are heading? Are you optimistic?
Absolutely. I’m going to walk forward. I’ve learned from it. It’s always going to be there. Like I said, it was a life-changing experience, but it gets better every day. It’s not easy every day, but it gets better every day. Even though money is tight, I’m not worried or stressed about it. Even though I can’t do the things the way that I used to do them, I’m not stressed about it. I know that it’s going to get better just based on the fact that I’m not stressed out about it or worrying about how this is not going to get done or that’s going to get done. I know that it’s a bigger picture for my life, and I know that I’m going to be okay and my family is going to be okay too. But most of all Damica is going to be okay.
Where would you hope to be, say, five years from now? What would you hope to be doing?
In a happy place. Being able to just relax and have a good career and be on the verge of one day retiring and living a good, quiet life somewhere. And traveling, because I love to do that. But just being secure and happy and enjoying life. That’s what I want. I want security, peace, and maybe in five years, my daughter will be older, and maybe I’ll have grandkids eventually? That’s what I see.
So your hope is that this was just kind of a bump in the road, but you’ll be able to rebound and get back to where you were.
Absolutely. I will! I’m determined to do better and be better, and feel better. It’s my goal for sure.
Anything else you want to add that I didn’t ask?
I just want to say again that no matter what happens to you and no matter if somebody is going to jail or being incarcerated for whatever reason, you can get your life back. It’s not going to be easy, and you have to take it one day at a time, but you can get your life back. Never give up. You’ve just gotta keep going. Don’t stop. It slows you down, but just keep going. And stay positive through it because it’s easy to be negative and complain about it and be sad and sick about it. About losing things and not having. But at the end of the day you have yourself. Every day you wake up, you’ve got another chance to do it right. That’s how I look at it. Like every day I get up, every single day I wake up, I know that there’s a chance for me to do better and have a better day. And I’m grateful that I’m able to be here, and I’m able to tell you. And maybe through this process it will help somebody or somebody will hear something that I said and take something from it. Just because you are in a situation, it doesn’t make you a bad person. And, even if you don’t have one dollar, you still can appreciate life, and being here one more day. That’s how I feel.