Alexandra
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Alexandra survived a brutal sexual assault at a young age and was placed in detention centers and shelters after she ran away multiple times.
ANNOTATIONS
Learn More: “Affordable Housing in New Jersey,” I Choose Home NJ, September 15, 2020.
Learn More [2]: “Housing,” State of New Jersey Department of Human Services: Division of Mental Health and Addiction Services, accessed May 30, 2021.
Learn More [3]: Dan Antonellis, “Affordable Housing Push Delivering Homes to Those Who Need It Most,” nj.com, January 29, 2019.
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Debbie Galant
New Brunswick, New Jersey
July 12th, 2018
Transcription by Debbie Galant
This is Debbie Galant with a July 12th 2018 interview with Alexandra at the 5 Loaves Food Pantry in New Brunswick. I have decided, uh, to withhold her last name due to safety reasons which will become apparent later in the interview. So first off, start by telling me your name and spelling it for me.
First and last?
Mm-hmm.
Alexandra [redacted], A-l-e-x-a-n-d-r-a [redacted].
Okay, and um, tell me uh, where you born in the area?
August Fifth, St. Peter’s Hospital, New Brunswick.
Okay, that’s good. Okay. So tell me a little bit about your growing up, did you live in New Brunswick? Um, what your parents did, what your life was like, you know, as early as you can remember.
Um, I grew up with New Brunswick. Uh, I was with my mom, and my father was in and out of jail.
Okay. And so uh, and so, how young were you aware of that and what was that like?
Um… I was young, probably around five, I think, but my dad was going back and forth to jail since I was born and since before I was born so… he was in prison most of my life.
What was that like for you?
Um… it was sad because I never got to see him, spent no time with him. He used to write me letters but my mom wouldn’t give them to me so I never knew he was having contact until I got old enough to check the mail on my own and then I seen them.
What was he in jail for?
Drugs.
Hmm. So your mom was raising you mostly alone?
Yeah. But really not raising. Like, my mom um, she resented my dad. I guess they had an abusive relationship. So. I look like my father so I remind her of him so she used to take it out on me. So I didn’t have a good childhood, I was just… there. I had two older brothers-- they were older than me. Um… Me and my oldest brother is ten years apart. My second oldest brothers are, is eight years apart, so we weren’t like, close, I don’t think.
So you’re growing up without a dad most of the time, and your mom doesn’t like you?
Not that she didn’t like me, but I feel like she kind of resented me a little bit because I connected her to my dad, so no matter what I was gonna be a part of him and her. And I guess she wanted to forget that part of her life so most of the time she was depressed and she used, like, medicine. Like, they put her on like, prescription drugs. So she slept like, most of my childhood. Like, just like the other day me and her were talking about how I don’t remember doing anything with her when I was a child. And she’s like “Well I was sick, I was depressed.” They put her on all this medicine, so… There was like, no connection.
Umm… did you have… um, any, any happy memories of being a little kid?
No.
Mm-hmm. Wha-- what, where were you growing up? Was it in New Brunswick? And, and what kind of housing was it and--
Um. New Brunswick. When I was... I guess sometime, like newborn to like four-ish we lived in a apartment on Reed Street in New Brunswick off of Joyce Kilmer. And then, probably from like [age] five to nine we lived on Delavan Street, in my grandparents‘ old house and… they weren’t there though, they moved somewhere else so it was just me and my mom, my two brothers. And then we moved around until I was, like, ten. We moved to a two-family house, there was like two families living on top, and then we ended up moving again to a different house but we were on top this time, and then that’s it. And [unclear].
Were there any differences between living in a house and an apartment, any places that felt, that had a nice backyard or that felt safer or less safe than others, anything you can tell me about what it felt like?
Um, that, I think the house was better. This was my grandparents’ old house, so like all their, their stuff was there so it felt like a home. But then were were living at the, uh the two-family houses and it’s just like nothing. Because there’s not much there. Like it wasn’t a house.
What was school like?
Um… it was okay. For whenever I went.
You didn’t go to school a lot?
No.
Oh. Do you want me to wait?
No, that’s okay. [Unclear].
Okay. Do you want to wait?
[Unclear].
Okay. Um, so okay, so you didn’t go to school all the time or for some of the time or...?
I didn’t have to go there, like there was no one to make me go. So, when my mom didn’t wake up in the morning to get me ready, which most of the time she didn’t, I just wouldn’t go because nobody forced me.
So you would stay home and do work?
Just stay home.
And?
Nothing! Just stay home, watch TV. Just chill in the house or like, go to a friend’s house who skipped school or something.
Hmm. Um... How was it, you know, so and that went all the way through the end, did you finish high school?
Yeah, I graduated, but in between. So when I was um… Um… Lemme see. When I was like, eleven-and-a-half I skipped school one day and I went with a friend to one of her friend’s houses and um, I didn’t know at the time ‘cause I was only eleven and a half, almost twelve, that they were gang members, and they were doing a gang initiation that night so I was caught in the middle of it and I ended up getting raped by close to five guys and I was twelve, almost twelve.
They considered me a run away. My mom called the police that I never came home, that I was a run away. But then long after, but when they found me I was, like, walking up the block and I was bleeding and everything. So when they found me, they knew that I was raped. But she considered me, like, a runaway until the police knew I had been raped. So she took me to the hospital to get a rape kit and all that. And they ended up pressing charges on a few of the guys, the ones that like, I could remember their faces. But um, they also were giving me drinks with drugs in it, so I was going in a knot. So I didn’t remember a lot. And um, we were going back and forth to court, so every time it was time for a court date, I’d run away. So I wouldn’t have to go to court. Because then they take your, um, your video in the room, like the prosecutor and someone else, they take your video and um, they play it to like, the grand jury, and then when it’s time to go to court you have to go in and testify. So I wouldn’t have to testify. So I would like, every time it was time I would just run away. So I wouldn’t have to go. But we like, we were so close to um, the block that I was raped on that I would still see the guys. Because they were out on bail, they were all over eighteen. So they were all out on bail. So I would like, walk to the corner store and one would be in the corner store. I would be walking to school, and in order for me to walk to school, it was a drug block. And they used to be over there because they sold drugs too. So everywhere I went in New Brunswick I ended up seeing the guys. So I just kept running away.
Were you afraid that they would hurt you if you talked?
Yeah. But, my mom was so adamant that she didn’t register, like, how serious it was. So she was like “I’m not going to let anyone move me out of my home, I’ve lived in New Brunswick all of my life!” So instead of trying to make it easier for me, she just made me stay.
How old did you say you were?
Um. When the trial started happening?
When, when--
When it happened I was like eleven-and-a-half. I wasn’t even twelve yet.
Did anybody… comfort you?
No.
How in the world did you process this? I mean--
I started... When I was running away, they started putting me in detention centers and shelters because it’s like, there’s a reason that she doesn’t want to be home. And my mom’s like “I’m not leaving.” Um. They put in a case worker for us to move somewhere else but she denied all the services so... From when I turned twelve to sixteen I was in like, different group homes, residential places, shelters, detention centers and when I was fourteen, I was put into Haye’s Unit, the juvenile jail for, for, teenagers and I was there from fourteen to sixteen.
What, what, what were you charged with?
With um, assault on a staff member when they were trying to restrain me. And um, violation of probation because after I ran away like the third time they took me to court and they put me on probation so that every time I had to go to court I would show up. Because I wasn’t showing up. So it was mandatory with my probation. So when I ran away, it was a violation.
So um, your crime was that you didn’t want to have to confront the guys that had raped you?
Right.
And were you afraid they were going to kill you? Or rape you again?
Just hurt me. Like, I had to walk to school by myself, didn’t get on the bus, didn’t have a ride. And like, I had two older brothers but they were older than me so they didn’t really know much of the stuff that was going on.
So how did you finish high school with all of this?
Um, I was in high school, when I left the juvenile jail and I was on parole, so they forced me to, to finish the school. But it wasn’t that bad. I ended up going to like, an alternative school and it was easy, so it was good for me to like, go through and that was it. But I ended up getting pregnant with my daughter-- she’s seven now, um, when I was in my last year of high school.
So tell me a little bit about that high school period. You said it wasn’t that bad--
It wasn’t hard--
Was it-- was it better than not bad?
It was good for what it was worth. So that I wouldn’t have to, um. ‘Cause um, people in like regular high school, they really don’t get in trouble. So they had me on like a strict list like um, because when I was twelve, when I was raped, they considered that a blood initiation, not by choice by force. So I wasn’t allowed to wear red, I wasn’t allowed to wear pink, any colors I was initiated with. Anything I was not allowed to wear.
So you were initiated by the Bloods?
Yes, but not by choice. By, by force.
So you weren’t allowed by the parole officers to do this.
Right.
So you were considered a gang member by the, um, well I know you were by the gang it sounds like. But were you considered a gang member by the authorities?
Yeah, from my juvenile time. But um, but once I got on my parole everything was clear. It was like juvenile parole but once I got everything was clear, so. But at the time, where we were living in Somerset I couldn’t um, they didn’t have like uniforms or anything, so I would have to wear regular clothes and all my clothes were colored. So when I was in night, the, the alternative school in Raritan Valley, Piscataway, they had a uniform so it was easier for me to just put on a uniform and stay within my... my rights for parole so I wouldn’t get in trouble rather than being in regular high school and they pop up there during the day and then they’re like “You’re wearing red, that’s a violation, you’re going to get in trouble.” You know? So.
Where were you living?
In Somerset, off of [Route] 27.
But in a house, in a--?
It was an apartment with my mom.
Oh, you were back with your mom?
Yeah.
Okay.
When I turned 16.
And so she agreed to move to Piscataway? Is that--?
No, to Somerset.
Oh, to Somerset.
I was, they, like, paid for out of district school.
Uh-huh.
So I could go there.
Okay so she… but she always wanted to stay in New Brunswick after the rape?
Yeah.
And she refused to- to take and to go anywhere else? But now by the time you got out of the juvenile detention she was willing to- to- to move?
Um, my brother talked to her and said, “You should just move to Somerset, it’s a nice place.” He was moving to North Brunswick and he was like, “Well, it’s closer to me.” And she’s like, “Okay, I’ll do it.” So. That’s how we got there.
Were you, um, good at any particular thing?
Pause.
Oh, okay, sure.
Okay. So um, I was gonna say were you um, good at anything at school? Was there anything you liked to do or liked about school?
No, not really. I would read a lot, but that’s… That was it.. Nothing else.
You developed a, a, liking of reading?
Yeah.
So what, what did you go to the library? Did you get books from school? What did you read?
I just bought them online. With an iPhone. So, uh, for, like the books. I would just buy them online and they would just go onto your phone.
So um, what did you read?
I would read everything. Like, they used to give us a list of books that they wanted us to read but I had already read a lot of them when I was in the detention centers, because all they had there were books and some things. They didn’t have like, computers or anything. All you had was pen, papers and books. So I had already read a lot of the reading list. So.
Any favorite books or authors?
No.
Do you read now?
No, [laughs] I read to my kids, that’s it. That’s it.
Okay, so did you make friends at the high school?
No.
How did you get pregnant?
Um… Obviously I had sex to get pregnant but um… I had met this guy, I knew his face, and I couldn’t remember where I knew his face from but he knew me. He said, “You don’t remember me?” And I said, “No, no I don’t remember you.” We were dating for awhile, he was older than me. I didn’t know how much older. Well, now he’s 40 and I’m 25. But back then, I was 17-going on-18. So he was much older than me. And I was coming back from seeing my best friend in Newark and he was on the train with me. So he kept saying “You don’t remember me?” Like, “Alexandra, you really don’t remember me?” And I’m like “No.” And I knew his face, I just couldn’t pinpoint where I knew him from. And, um, we were dating, we were dealing with each other. And to speed it up a little bit, I was maybe eight-and-a-half-months pregnant, and um, he was drinking. He was smoking and he was popping E pills. So--
E pills?
E pills. Ecstasy?
Oh. Okay.
And he, um, he kept saying, “You really don’t remember?” And I’m like, no. And then he made a comment to me in the middle of us having sex, like, “Your pussy is better now than it was when you were twelve.” So I ended up having a baby by one of the guys who raped me when I was twelve. Eleven-and-a-half, twelve, but I didn’t remember his face. But then, but at that moment, everything started to come back to me. Like, the things that I wanted to forget? He just-- brought it on. But it was already pretty much too late. I was already eight-and-a-half months pregnant and then like, maybe like two weeks after that I ended up having my daughter by an emergency C-section. So.
Had he been kind to you during the period that you were dating?
Yeah! Like, but, um, after we ended up, like after we stopped having sex, he was really remorseful. Like, “I’m sorry, I didn’t know you were that young.” Or, he never got locked up for it because I couldn’t pick him out. The other guys I knew because I seen them often. But he ended up going to jail, like, after that because he was older and he was on probation so he ended up getting locked up. So I never put two and two together for him until he brought it back to my attention. But it was too late to do anything. Like, I couldn’t get an abortion, and like, I already had attachment to the baby. I loved her. But, it was just a bad situation.
What… Did you feel when you found out?
I was hurt. I didn’t talk to him until probably a month after her. It was really bad.
Was he living with you at the time? Were you living with your mom?
Yeah, but he was living there as well.
So did he stop, did you kick him out?
Yeah, I ended up going back to his mom’s house which was probably on the other side of the complex, like towards the front of the complex-- we lived towards the back. His mom lived towards the front, so. Probably like, five minutes from my apartment was his mom. So he took all his stuff from my apartment and moved in with his mother.
So, was he there when you had your baby?
He was.
Okay.
Then, um, when my daughter was four months, he ended up getting locked up for five years. And when he came home, she was about to be six.
And um, is he part of your life?
No. I’m scared. Because I don’t want him to-- I was twelve. And they drugged me, they raped me, I don’t want to imagine what I would have, like, what I would think, the worst of him having to be with my child. She’s just a little girl. If he didn’t have remorse, if he didn’t care about me, I know he’s not going to care about my daughter because they have no connection. You know, he doesn’t really know her. Like, she knows if she sees him, she knows that’s my dad, but other than like, an emotional connection or something? There is none. So, I would be scared for her to be around him.
You would be scared that--
He would hurt her. Or the people that he has around him might hurt my child. So I don’t risk it.
So, you have ended up in a similar situation to the one you were born in.
Right. Pretty much.
How are things different now between you and your daughter than between your mother and you?
I love my daughter. Like-- I know. We grew together. So. And she’s my oldest-- I have three kids, but she’s my oldest so, I don’t know. I just love her more, I think. I spend time with her. Because if it wasn’t for me, she would have no one. Like, she doesn’t have a father, like she has one, but he’s not present in her life. And if I treated her like my mom treated me, then she would be like lost, you know? It’s not her fault. She didn’t ask to be born into this situation so. I can’t take it out on her.
Where did you learn to be a mother?
I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess it’s just a natural instinct in a woman, so.
Okay, so she is how old now?
Seven.
Okay, and the other two children, is there a father, do they have the same father, or...?
No, all three of them have different fathers.
Okay.
My next child, he’s four, and he was recently diagnosed with autism, ADHD. And, um, his father isn’t present. Like he had, um, domestic runs issue with women. When I first got pregnant and um, like, I just like swept it under the rug, I didn’t like, make a big deal out of it because I wanted him to be there. He was already connected with my daughter, like he was in her life. I met him when my daughter was two, so him and his family was already present in my daughter’s life. And then um, it happened again. He hit me when I was four months, and then from there, I started bleeding, and I bled throughout my entire pregnancy. And they were giving me medicine to try and stop it, like prescribing me pills so I wouldn’t be in pain. And then, um, I feel like that um, that was one of the reasons why my son ended up having autism. And, like, different things while I was pregnant and bleeding. It was from him beating on me. And then I ended up, he ended up coming home and his family tried to convince me to be with him and I tried to make it work, and I tried ending it this way, it went really bad, so I ended up getting a restraining order. And, um, his mom insisted that I drop it. So it’s either I drop it and they be a part of my daughter's life and my son’s life, or I keep it and I have nothing. But I can’t afford for him to like, beat up on me, or do it in front of my kids so I just stay away and I keep my restraining order. Because that’s kind of the only thing that’s keeping him away from me. But he violated a lot of times, he was in jail, within the last two years, I wanna say like eight times. Because he was calling, he was texting, he was popping up at my mom’s house, and in the motel room they put me in to get me away from him. So.
[Unclear]
Um. Okay. So, you don’t have his family. You did the restraining order so his family left your life, his family? Or they stayed involved?
Um, they left for, until my son was three and then they came back, and um, I thought his mom was gonna be there because she said, “I understand the situation now.” From her being in the courtroom, her going to court. So she understands everything that happened. And she said she was gonna be there, and then the last time I spoke to her was probably three, four months ago. And she said she was going to try and be a better grandmother, and then I never heard from her again. Except from her sending me a text message telling me that her son’s dad wanted to see him. But in order for him to see him, I have to go and remove both of the kid’s names off the restraining order so that he won’t be violating the order. And I told her no and I never heard from from her, so.
So what about your mother? Has she been a grandmother? Has she been an active grandmother?
Yeah, she’s a better grandmother than she was a mother. I don’t know if that makes sense, or... That sounds bad, but she is like, but it wasn’t just me. Like, she was the same with my brothers. Like, my grandparents raised my, my two older brothers and my mom was there, but she wasn’t like, a parent. So my grandma and my grandfather raised them. And then when they got old enough to leave, they left and just never came back. But I was pretty much stuck because I was the youngest in my family. Couldn’t go anywhere. But she has [sniffs], my oldest brother has two. My second oldest has one. And I have three. So.
Are your brothers, are you close to your brothers at all? I mean...
I was close to my oldest brother but unfortunately he passed away from cancer three years ago, so me and my other brother, we’re-- we’re cool. We’re not as close, but, we’re alright. But she’s a good grandma. Like, she’s there. She has my kids right now. Like, my daughter is with my cousin down south for some of the summer, but my other two are with her. And my nephew, which is my second oldest brother, is there, so. She’s a good grandma for them. So she gives them, she gives them what we never had from her.
Tell me about the third child.
My youngest, he’s, today’s the twelfth?
Uh-- yeah.
He’s seven months today, then.
[Laughs].
So he’s a little boy. And, I don’t know.
That father? He’s involved, not involved?
It’s uh, it’s a sticky situation. Like um, he’s... yeah, and no. He’s in a gang. And um, they know who we were having dealings with each other. He never brought it around me, so I knew nothing about it until he um, he went to jail for, like, violating… I don’t know if it was a court order or probation or child support, it was something he went to jail for something and, uh, I seen a girl driving his car. I was probably maybe not even having a full month after having my son, having a C-section and I was walking around the corner to get Tylenol and I said “The guy who drives this car? Where is he?” And I was calling his phone, I was texting, and she’s like, “He’s locked up.” And I’m like, “But who are you?” And was like, “This is my boyfriend. We’ve been together for five years and he’s my big homie, he’s in my gang.” So that’s when I knew about his gang situation. But then, probably like two days later, he ended up getting out and he’s like, “Well I don’t deal with her.” So. She said he did so... We, we kind of cut ties after that. It was only about our son. But then, um, something happened with drugs, and people were coming to the motel room that I’m staying at and... They almost killed me and my son. They came in with guns looking for drugs, so.
When was this?
Um. Probably when my son was two months, so, mid January-ish.
So, so, um. Let me get this straight. Who, um, you’re staying at a motel room that is being provided... ?
That is being provided from TRA, by Wolfer. Because--
What does TRA stand for?
Temporary rental assistance.
Okay.
Because, um, I was in a domestic violence situation with my oldest son’s father and I was running from him. And um, DYFS said it was a slip-up what they told him. I left the apartment I was living in, I went to my mom. They told him where my mom was staying, and said, “Well, you guys don’t have a problem with her staying with her mother,” and my mother has a one-bedroom and then from there they knew where I was at. So he was like, able to get to me. So then I went to the motel room and he didn’t know where that was, so. I just haven’t been able to find a permanent situation and I’ve been there for almost eighteen months.
How do you feel safe at night?
I don’t. Because, back to my youngest son’s father. The girl ended up punching my mother in the eye because, because they’re gang-affiliated and um, she’s like, “Well, your daughter disrespected me.” So instead of her attacking me, or trying to fight me, she ended up hitting my mom in the eye. And my mom has like, um, I don’t know which, like lenses in her eye? She had surgery. And she ended up knocking one of the lenses out of my mom’s eye. So it was just-- it was just real bad. But he’s like, the core of all of it. Because the girl is mad at me for having a baby by him. Like, I didn’t know nothing about you. So it’s just like every day, it’s something new with the girl. And I can’t even walk around the corner, like with my kid, because the girl, she like lives across the street from the store. And she’s like, she doesn’t want to stop fighting me, she’s like following me, cursing me out, and I like have my little baby. Like.
Have you talked to the TRA about moving to a different place?
I have, but they can’t because I’ve been on assistance for so long and I haven’t found a permanent apartment or a housing situation. If I, if they moving my hotel, they’re taking me out of TRA, so I would be homeless. And I can’t go to a regular shelter because of my domestic violence and I can’t go to a, uh, a domestic violence because of my domestic violence and because both of my baby fathers are gang affiliated. So when they go down their list of charges, they have like gun charges, they have terroristic threats, they have assault with deadly weapons charges. They like, served time in jail for serious charges. So they don’t want to put anyone else at risk. And I get it, but, this like leaves me with no help.
[Sighs] Okay, so you’re working here as a volunteer?
Yeah.
So then how, how did you get set up and um, why are you working as a volunteer as opposed to trying to find a job?
Um. Because am I supposed to… I was gonna move into, um, a safe house, somewhere out of county. But a DYFS worker, she was talking to my youngest son’s father. She told him I was gonna go to a safe house and he ended up coming to my mom’s house acting crazy, and like bangin’ on the door, trying to kick the door in. So um, I just ended up going back to the motel instead of leaving ‘cause he wouldn’t let me go to the safehouse. So I ended up having to go to to like, the work force program. And, um, they sent me here. But this is the safest place for me to be, other than the other places that is closer to his house. Like there was one on Livingston Avenue but I couldn’t go there because he lives right around the corner from the place. But here, he doesn’t know where I’m at.
Hmm.
So.
So you’re safe here? When you’re here.
When I’m here.
Right.
So when I leave here, I’m still gonna have to be careful.
And um, and so, uh, and, and, what do you do for living expenses?
Um. They give me [unclear]. They’re supposed to hold me over. Which is not much because they give you 424 [dollars]. They take 127 for living in the motel, and then um, that leaves me with 297. But I don’t get child support. None of, none of my kids fathers pay, so um, all I get is the 297, so I have to pay my full bills so that I have a phone. And then I buy my son, my oldest son isn’t potty trained because he can’t grasp the concept. And he doesn't like, he just now starting to speak through the speech therapy and stuff. Because he had a speech delay from the autism, so, he’s still in the pull-ups, so I have to buy him pull-ups. I still have to get diapers for the new baby, and like, wipes, and then for my daughter, whatever she needs. So then by the time I’m done with all that, I probably literally have like 20 dollars. And then I still have food stamps, but I still have to buy the food, so all of that is gone.
So you’re basically living on 300 dollars a month.
Yeah.
And what happens when you run out?
It’s just out. Have to wait until the next month.
But you always have diapers? Do you ever run out of diapers?
No, I buy it by the case, I go to BJ’s [laughs].
Oh! [Laughs] That’s the one thing you can’t run out of.
Right. So I just make sure I always have.
Um. Do you, um, get to have some food from here?
Um yeah, if I need it, but I usually don’t. I don’t need it. Because I don’t eat much, because in the motel, there’s no kitchen, there’s no fridge. So I have to grocery shopping, I bring it to my mom’s house. And so my morning is, I wake my kids up... we have to... I don’t drive. So we walk to the bus stop, and it’s on Route 1. Between Route 1 and Route 18. So, we walk around the corner from the motel to the bus stop, catch the bus to my mom’s house, but it doesn’t go directly to her house, so it takes me on Somerset Street and George Street. So then we walk up, I feed them, and take them where they have to go. And, like, if my daughter’s like, when she was in school, during through the year, I would take her to school, and my son and my other baby stays with my mom, and then I either went to the workforce program or I came here. And then--
What time do you start your day?
Five.
And how long does it take you to get to your mom’s?
Um. It depends on the bus, but if the bus comes from like, from like Perth Amboy, so I’m waiting for the bus for like… Almost 30 minutes so far. So. And then I go to my mom’s. And then, when I leave here, I go, I cook for my kids, they eat, I give them a bath at my mom’s house, and then we get back on the bus and go back here. And we do it all over again in the morning.
When do you finish, you finish at two?
Um, sometimes. Sometimes two, sometimes four thirty. It all depends on the day. Or sometimes, I stay later ‘til eight if there’s no other volunteers here, which is crappy, so it would just be me and her downstairs.
Okay. Do you get to do anything that’s fun?
No.
Ever?
No. Unless I’m doing something with my kids.
Like what? Like what would be a Saturday or something if you could do something with the kids, what would you do?
[Sniffs] We usually go to the park, or we’ll go to like, Chuck E. Cheese or something. Just try to keep them entertained. Not if it’s pouring. Stay in the room all day or at my mom’s. But we can’t really go anywhere.
Hmm.
[Crying].
Is, is Cathy trying to help you?
Yeah.
What is she saying to you? Take your time.
She gives good advice. She like, tries to connect me to people, but it’s just a… we can’t be out really long because I can’t be seen out really long. Because, say we go to Chuck E. Cheese and they want to get pizza down the street from the pizzeria from my mom’s house. I can’t be there for a long period of time, so as soon as we pick up the food, we have to run back to the house. Because, my son’s fathers both, they drive, and if they catch me it’s the worst. You know? And the worst part is that like, someone attacking you or you being beat up by a man in front of your kids. So. I just try to like, protect them.
Do you think they’re safe with your mom during the day?
Yeah. Like, I bought an alarm for my mom’s door so if, if someone, like, tries to come in the door, tries to like push in the door, it like, goes off really loud and you can hear it downstairs in her apartment building, so.
Do you have one of those yourself?
No, because I can’t use it in the room.
Because you’ll get kicked out?
No, because there’s nowhere to connect it.
Oh.
The way the doors are. Like, it’s like, flat. But the way my mom’s door is, it’s, it’s the, it’s the frame. The way you connect it. The way the room is, it’s just, flat. There’s no frame for the door. So I can’t tape it up there like I can do her’s. But I tried, that’s the first thing I did, I tried to.
Do you have a case worker?
I do, I have DYFS, but they’re like, I don’t want to say they’re no help, but they’re no help. So I have to be, I’m careful of what I tell them, and where I tell them I’m at during the day. Because when they go to him, he asked them questions and they talk to him, like, their friends, but I don’t want them to slip up and say oh, she’s volunteering here or she’s working here or, or she’s doing this and then he pops up one day.
They know your, your, your ex-boyfriends know the people at DYFS? Or, how would they find out?
Um. My oldest son’s father, his mom knows people who work for DYFS and her best friend is a lawyer, so what I was learning from him was that she was able to get information about them through her friends-- through the lawyer. So. And then, um, my oldest son’s dad, he, he texts the lady, the worker, and um, that’s how he knew the day they were going to go to the safehouse. Because she told him like, “She’s going to be in the safehouse with the kids.” And then before I was able to go, he stopped in, so.
Hmm.
It sucks.
Do you have any, um, ideas or hopes for a better future?
I feel like if I was able to get away from here, everything would be much better. Because I would be able to work, I would be able to live and I wouldn’t have to hide from anyone. I would be able to like, walk down the street with my kids or walk to the school and just, be free. Then we could be regular, instead of being in hiding. You know? It sucks. But…
What would it take to have that happen?
Just find a place to live. Like, if I could just find a place to live outside of New Brunswick, even if it was just Middlesex County, which is out of this area, so that I can still come here and volunteer until I found a job instead of being put or placed somewhere where it might be harmful or where it doesn’t work for me. Like, the hours, if I have a doctor’s appointment for my oldest son because he goes to the neurologist a lot, so. If I have a doctor’s appointment, she’s flexible with me. So, if she’s opens up on a late night, so I can stay later and be off in the morning so I can take care of my kids and my son.
Okay so--
And I also need, like housing. It’s hard when like-- they had me on like a subsidized housing list. But now, I don’t know, some new, I don’t want to say ball or something, so people who have like opium addictions, who do drugs, who take pills, who addict themselves on their own, like no one puts a gun to their head, they take the pills, they become addicts. No, they’re first in line to get Section 8 and to get housing. So people who have like, my son. He’s special needs and I’m in domestic violence twice so, so I’m still booted to the bottom of the list and I’m living in a motel with a child with special needs and in hiding from two men. But my case isn’t as important to them as someone who is addicted to prescription pills or street drugs, who has a child, because they want to do what they can for that person versus my situation. Because something, I guess Chris Christie put in place for people with addictions before he left office. So it’s like, they have to go by like what’s, they’re told to do. So I’m just at the bottom until someone decides to help me, or until I find a place which is hard.
Hmm.
With my situation.
Right. Is the fact that you have this, you have both of the fathers of your, um, well, all three of them, have criminal records?
Yeah.
So that, does that put you, so does that make it hard for you to get jobs, or make it hard for you to get housing? Do people investigate that?
They do. Like when you go into a safe house, they um, they do like an interview and they ask you all these questions. So that when you get to the child’s father, they, my oldest son’s father. I have a restraining order, a final one against him and they, they need a copy of any restraining orders or court orders or anything so you can’t lie to them. So when they ask you, like, is this person in a gang? You have to be honest because it’s going to show up on the [unclear], because it says like, “gang,” the box is checked. So I have to say yes, does he have a criminal history? I have to say yes. They ask for the charges, I have to tell them. And they said, “Are you in fear if he finds you, has he found you in certain places?” And you have to be honest, you have say yes. So me being honest, they say, “We understand the severity of your situation and we feel bad for you, but we can’t house you with us. We have to advocate for you out of county if there’s room.” So some people, it’s supposed to be thirty to sixty days in a shelter for domestic violence, but some people have to extend it longer for certain situations, so there’s not always a bed. And, um, they don’t always have room for me and three kids. They might have room for me and one kid. Or sometimes, room for me and two kids. But not for all, all three. So I would have to leave one of my children, because I’m not going to leave my kids. Because who’s going to take care of my kids? I will take care of my kids. Like, I love them, I will do it. So it’s like, I don’t want to be separated from one or two of my kids until I find a place, and even though I’m running from two men that didn’t want my love. So when I’m not there and I’m somewhere in a safe house, you’re not supposed to have any contact with anyone there, so I wouldn’t be able to constantly call my mom or see my kids, like how’s my kids? And then God forbid something bad happens or they come, they’re high one day and they come acting crazy to my mom’s house and I’m not there to protect my mom and my kids. So I’d rather just take them with me, wherever I have to go. So for now, it’s the motel. I don’t like it there but where they have me, they have cameras, like I’m in a corner room so they have a lot of cameras, so that makes me feel a little bit safer. But my youngest son’s father, he knows someone who rents a room. Like I’m upstairs, and they rent a room downstairs. So he can get out of his car and he can look in my room. So he comes and he’ll knock on the door to see if I’m there at three in the morning, when the baby is crying ‘cause he’s hungry and I’m making him a bottle and he’s bangin’ on the door and he hears the baby, now he knows where they are. So I call the police, they take around fifty-some, close to an hour, fiftysome minutes, close to an hour to even come. They say they don’t have enough officers to come. It goes, I guess by severity, how serious the call is. But I’m saying I’m scared, he’s like, he’s attacked me before, we don’t get along, he wants to take my son, or he’s trying to force himself into the room. They’re like, well, close the door and lock it until we come. But by the time then he’s bangin’ on the door, so by then you have the manager, people are, are calling the manager to complain. Then you have the manager, the people are ca-- calling the office to complain, so you have the manager saying, “What’s going on in your room? Do I have to call Wolfer on you?” And that’s the TRA people. And I’m like, “No”. So it’s either I’m gonna let him bang or I’m going to have to open the door and let him come in. Because I don’t wanna be kicked out, because if I’m gonna be kicked out, I have nowhere else to go because I exceeded a certain amount of time in the motel, so. If they kick me out, they’re not gonna put me somewhere else with TRA.
So you let him come in?
So I have to open the door to try and calm him down. Like, “Can you shut up, can you stop banging? Like, just chill. What do you want? Why do you want to come in?”
“I want to make sure there’s no man in the room.” “Well, there’s no man it’s just the kids.”
So he’s lookin’ under the bed, he’s lookin’ in the bathroom. And it’s like, no one is here but me and the kids. So he’ll see that and he’ll leave, he’ll go back downstairs. So when the cops come, well, can you guys like wait until I can call a cab so I can go to my mom’s house? And they’re like, okay. So they wait until I get into the cab with my kids and I go to my mom’s house. I just hope he doesn’t come because he has a key to my mom’s house. And they’re like, the people, um, the maintenance people, they won’t change it. It’s like, not priority for them to change it. So just hope and pray he doesn’t follow us there, and he like stays ‘til whatever room he’s staying in to hang out with his friends and doesn’t follow us. So I go through that every night. So if he’s there at night-time my friend, he works, um, a couple blocks away so. On his way to work, he checks to see if his car is there. If his car is there, I don’t go there. I stay at my mom’s house. But when his car isn’t there, it’s safe for me to go.
Oh.
So. It’s bad. But, eventually it will get better once I, I find a place out of New Brunswick.
Mm-hmm.
So.
Hmm. Would you like to move far away?
[Sniff] Um. Yeah. I don’t want to be here.
Like, where do you imagine?
Anywhere. It doesn’t matter as long as I have my kids with me. It doesn’t matter. I don’t want to be here though. But it’s hard, when they won’t sign papers or anything to let me go. Like when you, when you have like, the courts, they like sign the birth certificate or take a DNA test, and they’re proving to be the father, now they have equal rights. Before they’re in court, I can just pick up and leave. But now I have to get permission from them to leave and these people I’m running from. So now, you’ve lead us to your house, the court has to find you to send you letters, and it prolongs the situation, even with having a restraining order. I can’t just pick up and go because he still has a right to parent his child even though he treats me bad, he beats on me, he still has a right to, to be a parent to his kid. Even though he doesn’t, and he’s going to make my life hell, because I haven’t, like, let him see the baby, but he won’t take care of my son. And this goes for both of the fathers, they won’t like buy diapers, no pull ups, no nothing. So everything I do by myself. And WIC only gives you a certain amount of milk for the baby, or, or the rice, or the baby food. Like, they only give you a certain amount. So for the rest I have to buy with the food stamps. Which is, it still covers, but still. Getting help with, to be helped, but they do nothing. So. But they still have rights as parents per the court so. I’m just like, stuck until… something changes.
Were you able to nurse your baby?
Yeah. My youngest one. Um, I still nurse him. In between. But like, he’s alright with formula. Like, I ease them on it. I always give them one bottle each day, then I start out with two. So he’s alright. But he prefers breast milk out of everything. He’ll like, pull on my shirt, so.
Um. Tell me a little bit about what you do here and how you feel about it and when did you start?
Um, I want to say I started in the beginning of May, and, um, usually there’s not a lot of people here. There are a lot of people who volunteer, who are supposed to be here like to workforce but a lot of them don’t… show. So it’s usually just me and Cathy, probably like one or two other people, but they don’t leave early. So I help her do files on the computer, and I help her fill orders. Like, for people who will come in. And that’s. That’s it.
Do you like it? How does it feel?
Um, it feels good. That I can like, help somebody who needs it, you know? It’s a good feeling.
And I guess, it’s, it seems like a pretty nice environment, it feels safe.
Any time a door locks behind you when you come in, is safe for me. So. Like, I don’t have to worry about someone walkin’ in on me or on one of them walkin’ in on me. So, it’s safe.
You have a television in the hotel, right?
Yeah.
Do you watch it?
No.
No?
No.
I, I just wonder when you see pictures of what else is going on in America, how other people live, I mean. Do you, what do you think?
If I see it on my phone, how like, I have CNN on my phone. But I don’t, um, I let the kids watch cartoons sometimes. But I try to keep the TV off so I can hear people outside if someone is coming to the door or something. I don’t want it to be too loud. I want it to be at a low tone so if one of them bang on the door, that can just like, mute it or turn it low and the kids are calm so. But I do see other stuff that’s going on in the world which is worse than my situation. But like, immigration and all that stuff.
Yeah, how did you feel about those parents and children being separated?
That’s sad. Because I wouldn’t ever want to be away from my kids. I know how I feel about my kids, but then you have to think like, I understand, like, different situations and living situations, like the cartels and people taking over like, little towns and cities, I get it. But it’s like... It’s one thing when you do it the right way, and it’s one thing when you say no risk, no reward. So you’re taking a risk, to put your children out there, you know? And some, and some people um, I was reading, someone sent me a link, forwarded me a link, and I was reading it, and um, this lady um, she got over, but then she had like, her kids, and she let them go to like, I guess to like, I don’t know, I don’t know, whatever type of center the kids were put in, and then the kids were taken by, um, families. And then the lady went to get her kids back, but then she left them. It’s like, you had a choice, like, to either stay with them and you guys go back, or like, you, you left them. You left your kids to be put somewhere. And now, and now they’re living better than what they were there, and now you wanna take them from what they know now. But you, but you separated from them, and it’s like, if you know that that’s a possibility, like, I wouldn’t go to a border asking to come over, knowing that my next move would probably be, in like, a jail, or in a center, or whereever they keep them, like. I don’t know. I just wouldn’t like, want my kids to go through that. You know what I’m saying?
Yeah.
I guess, it’s bad over there, but which one is worse? Because eventually you’ll be sent back. So, like, what’d you get out for? It’s not even that they’re really getting out to experience a better life, they’re getting out to go to a camp and then be shipped out right back to where they came from.
I guess what else I wondered was--
[Sniffs].
I mean, do you get, do you ever see the lives of people who are wealthy, like, rap stars, whatever, and wonder about that life, or anybody? Like, the American dream, anything, anything like that. Do you ever see that, do you have any thoughts on that?
Um. I see people, uh, like the rappers on TV. Chains, cars and all that. Like, I don’t feel like that’s the American dream or anything. Like, I feel like, not all but some, like you’re selling your soul to get on TV. Like, so you’re degrading women, you’re degrading women, you’re calling them bitches and hoes and sluts and all that and talking about having sex with them, it’s like… You were raised by a woman. So you’re degrading a woman, and most of them have kids like… So you might have daughters, so it’s okay for you to make music and sell music to people, other kids or teenagers or, or kids or people, but would you want that for your kid? Like, would you respect a man, or a boy who came to your daughter and acted the same way, the same way of the stuff you rap about to your kid? And then like, you’re on TV like, I dunno, “nigga this,” “nigga that,” “fuck you this,” they act ignorant. And then they… like, it’s like you’ve been in a box. They’re not doing anything to like, make the communities better, or they have all this money. But you’re selling your soul, you’re selling your soul but do you have enough to buy it back? At the end? And it’s usually no. Because they just keep going.
What-- you’ve heard the term “the American dream--”
[Sniffs].
What do you think it is and do you think it is?
Um. I don’t know. The American dream I guess, is to live good, like. I feel like there’s just a lot of opportunities here given to us but it’s kind of like, overshadowed by the people who come here. Like, illegally and, and stuff like that. Like, my American dream would be to just live good, have a good job, my kids be able to go to school. Like, have a good education. Get good jobs. And then just live happily, you know? But sometimes like, as of right now I don’t think that’s happening. Because of all the craziness and the madness in the world but eventually, like... Hopefully it happens.
Tell me a little bit more about your middle son and how you’re getting help for him? Are you getting help and do you think it’s good help?
Um… Yes and no. Like, I put him in speech therapy. I didn’t know nothin’ about it until maybe six months before he turned three. So he was in speech therapy for six months. Then, um, he aged out of the early intervention and ended up going to school in a special education program, but they weren’t treating him right there. They, they wouldn’t make him interact with the other kids, so I was just sending him to school to get him out of the house. So he would get toys, he’ll eat in the corner, he’ll get toys in the corner. Like, they’ll be singing songs, they won’t force him to come on the carpet to sing with the other kids. They’ll let him sit in the corner and do his thing. He has to listen and he’s supposed sing along, but in his own area. Because he just doesn’t like the loud noise, he doesn’t like to be around, um, a lot of people. He like, shies away. So he doesn’t get that much help. As of now, they gave him different numbers of organizations and things and things to call which I do, but they have so many waiting lists that I don’t, I’m not really getting far so. I don’t work with him. He has like, no, no work. And they wanted me to give me, to put him on medication because he doesn’t sleep through the night, so they consider that like a sleep disorder. And um, I’m scared to medicate him. He’s four. And the medication they gave me is like a low pressure, so hypertension. He doesn’t have high blood pressure. And it’s a slow release, so he takes it at eight thirty at night, it’s going to slow release until the next day, so he’ll be walking around like a zombie because of, it’s a slow release and it’s for hypertension! So his blood pressure is regular, and I give it to him at eight thirty, nine o’clock at night before he goes to bed, he’ll sleep all the way through but then it will still be fully releasing when he’s awake. So he’ll be moving slower and more, I don’t even want to say mellow, that’s an understatement. He’s a zombie. And he’s four.
You mentioned something about going to a neurologist. Is that something that is paid for by Medicaid?
Yeah, by the insurance. It won’t be for the medicine though. But they’ll, they’ll pay for the visit.
And do you have medical issues yourself?
No.
Well, that’s good. Anything else that you want to say about your life and America? How it’s going?
No. We’re in like a shit hole for America. Like the things I see on TV? It’s nuts.
Thank you so much.
You’re welcome.