Mohamed Ismail
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Clifton resident Mohamed Ismail identifies as a queer Muslim American Egyptian immigrant man. He’s studying for a master’s degree and has experienced food insecurity.
ANNOTATIONS
Minimum Wage - Due to low wages, people have been forced to work multiple jobs in order to provide basic needs for themselves and their families. New Jersey recently started a several-year phase-in to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour. This will help low-paid workers earn more to afford their basic needs, benefitting the local economy, their communities, and their families.
Context Link 1: https://www.njpp.org/blog/explainer-new-jerseys-15-minimum-wage-proposal
Context Link 2: https://expo.nj.com/news/g66l-2019/02/eb7f9cd3567249/murphy-just-enacted-a-15-minimum-wage-for-nj-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-it.html
Food Insecurity - One million New Jerseyans go hungry every year due to food insecurity. Governor Murphy recently signed legislation to fight this issue by helping to coordinate operations between various government agencies and better address the food deserts that exist throughout the state, provide more information on food pantries to those in need, and reduce food waste.
Context Link 1: https://www.nj.com/opinion/2018/11/there_are_1_million_hungry_new_jerseyans_heres_how.html
Context Link 2: https://www.nj.gov/governor/news/news/562019/approved/20190509b.shtml
Safety Net - New Jersey has recently begun investing in and increasing the amount of welfare resources for the first time in decades. However, resources still remain inadequate for many residents. Continuing to invest in these resources (such as TANF, WIC, SNAP) will help more people who depend on them to stay out of poverty.
Transcript: “Even in the mystery of not knowing the future, the support always helps, no matter the situation.”
Context Link 1: https://www.cbpp.org/research/family-income-support/tanf-benefits-remain-low-despite-recent-increases-in-some-states
Context Link 2: https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/7-22-16pov-factsheets-nj.pdf
Context Link 3: https://www.njspotlight.com/stories/16/06/29/christie-s-welfare-cuts-leave-nj-safety-net-in-tatters/
Economic Security and Minimum Wage - Millions of New Jerseyans have been unable to properly afford their expenses and obligations due to low pay and wage deflation. Recently, in early 2019, the state signed into law legislation that will increase the minimum wage for most workers by 2024 and for all workers (except for tipped workers) by 2029. This will help over a million workers by boosting their pay, and have an indirect benefit on hundreds of thousands more further up the income scale as businesses reform their compensation policies and the economy grows. This increase is projected to allow for more residents to have the ability to fully participate and afford critical purchases.
Context Link 1: https://www.njpp.org/reports/a-15-minimum-wage-would-help-over-1-million-workers-and-boost-new-jerseys-economy
Context Link 2: https://www.njpp.org/blog/explainer-new-jerseys-15-minimum-wage-proposal
TRANSCRIPT
Okay, I’m here interviewing Mohamed Ismail and he is here visiting us in Newark, NJ. Where are you from?
Originally from Sohag, Egypt so I moved around a lot. Currently I live in Clifton, NJ and I am moving to Garfield.
Interesting, this is very interesting. Let’s backtrack. So you are from Sohag, which is considered the countryside of Egypt. What was that like, if you have memories of that time?
I mean, I do visit family there, when I used to live with my family but... it’s just like any other country-side, farm land, small town, everyone knows each other. I'm usually knows as the American child because I’m the one that left the town to move to this country.
So do you have any memories of when you lived there before you moved to America?
Not really. Most of my memories are more so me imagining how it would be like, from stories my parents would tell me, of how I was in the countryside. For instance, there was this one time my mom would tell me that I would just run around um, with my grandfather to his shop-little shop he has around the corner, and I would get lost sometimes but everyone just knows who I am ‘cause I was a baby of the child. And there was another time how my mom would tell me, I would mimic this commercial, that it was um, a laundry commercial about detergent and it would be this woman who would be like, walking down the street and she would be asked like, “Oh, where are you going?” and she would be like, “I’m going to the grocery store,” and she’s like, “What are you buying,” and she’s like, “Oh, I’m buying [Arabic],” and then I would mimic the pers- the lady in the commercial, walking in heels and then, with like the whole scarf around my head, I’d be like, “Oh, where are you going [Arabic],” and I’d be like, “Oh, I’m going to get [Arabic].”
Could you say that in Arabic for us?
[Laughs] I can, it would be like [repeats part of story in Arabic].
[Responds in Arabic, both laugh]
So was that some type of-- some sort of premonition or a foreshadowing now that you look back?
Honestly, there was a time, I wanted to write a story, to be like uh, like moments of my life how I foreshadowed who I am today, and how I’ve come to be, that was probably one of the moments of me wearing heels or playing this my mom’s makeup, or-- and not being into the whole stereotypical male activities such as sports or trucks or playing in the dirt, as I was growing up.
Interesting, we are definitely going to get back to that. But right now, I want to know how old were you when you moved to the US?
I was about two or three years-old.
Okay, and can you take me down that journey of where you lived in the U.S.?
According to my parents, since I was too young to remember now, we moved with my dad’s roommate, in a house, I think that's what's my mom told me I don't remember what town it was. But the only issue the roommate didn't like having a kid in the house so we ended up, I think we ended up moving to [a friend’s] house at that time. I don't remember anything at all, I just remember stories, little bit and pieces, like how his sister had a hamster, and my mom hated hamsters--anything that had four legs. And then, after that, we moved to Cedar Grove, I think? And that was a time where I was kinda an only child and that-- I think that was when my younger brother was born when I was like, five-years-old. After that, we had to get a bigger apartment, and move into, an apartment in Paterson. When my second brother came, and my sister came, we ended up moving to an apartment in Wayne, but as we were all getting older, we really couldn't live in just the same bedroom anymore, so we ended up getting a house in Wayne. Then, at that time I ended up living on campus at William Paterson University as a R.A.-- Resident Assistant. And that’s when I lived there. And then moving forward, about a year that's when my parents moved to North Haledon and that’s kinda where I lost in touch, because I stayed on campus, but during breaks and vacations between the semesters and holidays, I would end couch-surfing cause I wasn't allowed to stay on campus, because campus was closed during those breaks. So there was times I lived in uh, Mount Olive, New Jersey with a friend for a week. And there was another time, I don't remember if it was Mountvale or Mountville, I always confused the two-- where I lived, I literally slept on the couch ‘cause I literally had nowhere to go, on my friends couch and I would interchange between her place and her then-- well his, then girlfriend in Woodland Park. And there were times where I would take care of their then’s partner’s cat as a way of me staying over. And then... where else did I stay? I stayed in New York one time, with one of my fraternity brothers and then I stayed-- I had to have one of my friends pay for a hotel because I couldn't afford it and I didn't have anywhere else to go in Paramus, and then I moved to Bloomingdale, New Jersey for a couple of months, before I, my roomates told me that I had to leave, and that's when I moved into a house in Wayne near Willow Brook. And, I stayed there for like, about six months before the owners of the house said that they want to move back from Texas, so I had to move, so I ended up moving to Woodland Park. And then I moved to Newark with my cousin, and stayed here for uh, about two months and then I moved to Clifton which is where I am at now, and the only issue is my roommates-- they’re good people, as roommates I feel like we do not get along as well, so that’s why I’m ending up moving to Garfield in a month and a half. So it’s like, sixteen times, I had to count that, I had to count that ‘cause I did it for my class, where we were just-- we had to say an interesting topic about our childhood and I was like, I moved a lot more times than I can have fingers on my hand-- on both my hands. So, we had to count it, and from moving from Egypt to where I am going now, will be my sixteenth time moving my whole life.
So you’ve been all over New Jersey? So again, backtracking [both laugh], um, what was your upbringing like when you were living with your family?
It was great, but also tough. It was great, where I got the basic needs that I needed, such as water, food on the table, a roof over my head kind of thing, but tough because I wasn't really allowed to be myself and it wasn't really accepted, and it was really looked down upon so I had to hide a part of myself, of who I am, to the world and see myself whether it be like, a monster or an abomination as what usually most religions sees someone of my sexual orientation like.
Can you expand a little bit on the role of religion and your feeling...?
Growing up, I always seen religion as something that is prominent in my life, that I have to do, “if I don't do it, I’m going to hell kind of thing”. Religion was... something not to question. It was, or is... something that my parents would say that I had to do because religion said so, but I couldn't ask questions. Because if I were, I mean, that would be, what’s the word in English? Um, evil person or whatever. And I had, I had one of my friends before I left, he would ask me, “How, how are you religious if your religion is seen as being taught as being against who you are?” And honestly what has helped me more so as of late, is you and amen. Um, helping me realize that a lot of the things that I learned about my religion and was taught growing up is not always necessarily about the religion? It can also just be about the cultural aspects or cultural traditions that our parents and our grandparents, and our foreparents before that, have learned just being in the region that they grew up in and, not what is actually written in the book of the Quran. And, that's what brought me back to the religion, ‘cause there was a moment in my life where I thought, how can I be, identify myself as Muslim if I was seen as not someone who can live within in that religion, live by that faith. So as a result, I thought about going into being a Wiccan, um, because of the aspects that attract me to being a Wiccan was the whole balance and putting out the same energy that you would want into the universe, um, like the positive energy and the balance of like, nature and the whole like, “do unto others as you would unto you” and whatever you put out in the ene-- in the universe comes back to you threefold, kind of thing. But the thing that I couldn't handle was the whole not a monotheistic style of a religion where there is a whole god and goddess but I couldn't believe in that. I still believed in like, one God, only Allah. And that's what brought me back and how ca-- like, I was asked, I was asked that question during class today, as well as the whole religion aspects, how it relates to my life. I just said that like, right now how other people focus on the bad elements of religion and like, how it is strict within that element whether, with like homosexuality or um, with marriage or with how to raise kids, I just focus on the positive aspects, like peace and love and love thy neighbor, kind of aspect of religion.
And your religion is?
I am Muslim. I am Muslim American.
And who are you?
What do you mean?
You said “my religion didn't allow me to be myself” before you came back to it.
I... identify as... a queer Muslim American Egyptian immigrant man.
That's a whole package!
Yes! [both laugh]
Cool. Let’s unpack that.
It’s a whole package, it’s tough but it’s also strength. I talked about it in my multicultural counseling class over the summer, about how I’m the most minority in my class of mostly white females, whereas I have four strikes against me versus the majority of this country and the popularity. Where-which is-- The aspect as it being first, my religion being Muslim, whe- because the dominant religion in this country is Christianity. The dominant sexuality in this country is heterosexuality, whereas I am homosexual or queer, what I identify as. Another aspect is being native to the country, I wasn't born to this country, I am an immigrant. And I am a person of color I am not white. So those are four strikes of being a minority, that goes against my favor, in some aspects, but at the same time it gives me strength and resilience to survive in this culture.
Can you tell me about the day that you left your family home?
[Long pause] It was... a lot. It was... a bit of a shock but at the same time, not a shock... It was kind of a moment in my life where, how you would take a security blanket away from a toddler to get them to be more of an adult, which is kinda what happens. It was a moment in my life, that has changed everything in what I do, of my outlook in life. It has-- a very big pivotal point where... from an outside experience, it could have been seen as a negative outcome, but as of late, I see it as a positive outcome where I became more independent instead of living back at home. For instance, because of that event, that was a life or death kinda event... [long pause] It was a life or death event that honestly changed everything. Of what I believed in, what I thought was there. It’s one thing to have your family call you names and try to degrade you, in that way. It’s another when it gets physical. ... But what I tried to do to live passed that thing is to see how far I’ve become and where I’ve landed because of that event and without it, I wouldn't be where I am today.
Where are you today?
After I left my parent’s house, I left with two backpacks worth of stuff. One had say like, two pairs of underwear, two pairs of socks, just some clothes-- not a lot, and some books, in case I go back to school. And that’s all I had and whatever I was wearing. Unt-- and now moving forward a little over three years now, I have a roof over my house that I can afford. I have a full-time job, I have a Bachelors’ degree in Physiology and I’m getting my Master’s at Montclair State in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. I own a car. I pay my own insurance-- I have medical, vision, dental insurance. I have a steady paycheck. I have a steady support group. My mental health could be better, but it is not the worst. I do not have as much panic attacks and anxiety attacks when I lived with my parents. I’ve come, come to a point to where I accept all the labels that I identify with, and no one can change that. No man, no woman, no mother, no father, no human being in this world can change who I am. Who I’ve become, and change the past that I’ve had, and the path that I’ve gone through to come to where I am. I’ve worked hard. I’ve worked tirelessly. I’ve had many tears shed for how exhausted I’ve become. I’ve had many nights of sleepless nights to be able to go to work whether by bus or by car or by Uber to get to work, to be able to pay my bills to be able to get back to school, and to be at a point where I can… if I fall, I can fall onto the ground running, instead of falling to the ground on my back and not knowing what is up and what is down.
Wow. Can you tell me a little bit more about the experience of getting to where you are today?
… It was tough. I knew after I left, my parents house, that I couldn't stop. It was a choice that was in the moment and I had no net underneath, underneath me to catch me. I’ve had friends where if things go tough for them, they can just go on the phone and call their parents, or go on the phone and call relatives to be around. I've had nights… where I’ve felt so lonely I’ve felt as if I would disappear from this world know one would care. It’s been a tough road mentally, physically, emotionally. Where I’ve had friends that look up to me and be like, I want to move out, I can’t handle my parents. I would straight up tell them to not do it, unless they are sure they can handle it. I would ask them do you have a steady job, do you have a steady paycheck? New Jersey is expensive, rent is expensive. [Annotation #1] I have had times where I would have to pay my bills or pay my rent, instead of eating food. Because to me, having a roof over my head was more important than eating. I’ve had times where I wouldn't know if I would have food on the table. I would live with, whether eating ramen or just scraping by. Maybe having something small just to last me through the day. Or just having a glass of-- bottle of water and just refilling it from the tap water, to try to quench the hunger. Like, I’ve had friends that helped me with the food. I’ve had friends during one of the years on my own, they would have meals swipes on campus and would be like “I don't use them all, if you need them, let me know” and they would help me that way. [Annotation #2] But I was raised somewhat independently, where it is shameful to ask for help. It’s seen as having a weakness. Som some days I would starve because I would have only have enough money to Uber in case I missed the bus, to get to work. And I would have to handle the stress because I can't be late to work. Otherwise I would get yelled at, get reprimanded because I don’t have a car or because the bus is late, or the bus didn’t show up. I would have to figure out a way to get to work on time and sometimes that’s me using some of my savings that I barely have, to use for that Uber to get to work, which didn’t even pay that much at that time.
How did you handle that stress? What were your coping strategies?
It took awhile. But my first coping strategies was my best friends. They’ve been there for me throughout everything I have gone through. Whether it’s emotional support or mental support, whatever they can do. But I would never ask them for anything. Just the support was helpful. But at the same time, my reason to live was stronger than my reason to pass away. Yes, I have had thoughts of what would happen if I drove off the road. I’ve had thoughts, if I just left what would happen? But I knew, my drive that helped me to go finish school and the drive that I have now to get my Master’s degree, is so that, I want to be that support for someone else who doesn't have family or friends to boost them up in life. I had some friends and it helped me but I know that one day that there will be someone who will need me and I want to be that person for them, I want to help them they way my friends have helped me. I want to teach them how to trust themselves, I want to teach them... that they are not alone. It is not shameful to ask for help… even if it's for a ride or just even a pat on the back is enough to get you to next day. That drive... that one day I know, once I start working my field I’ll have that group of people. Doesn’t matter even if it’s ten, twenty or fifty, all I want is that one person that will come up to me afterwards and be… telling me thank you for being there. Telling me that if it were not for me they would be in a ditch somewhere, because that’s how it was with my friends. If it wasn't for my friends, I don’t know where I would be. I don’t know if if I would be alive. I don’t know if I'd be underground. I don’t know where I would be.
How do you envision the future?
I don’t know what the future will bring. I can’t know. I’m not that powerful. I’m not that knowledgeable. But I do hope that one day, whether it is in my lifetime or my kid’s lifetime or my grandkids... that people wouldn't discriminate on things that should be natural. Things... that it wasn’t the child’s fault, whether skin color, disability, ability, sexual orientation, gender orientation. It doesn't have to be utopia, ‘cause not everything is perfect. But enough where... my future kids don’t have to walk in the street being fearful, of who they are, being able to express who they are without fearing any punishment, whether it being from the law, or be from their parents or society, that’s what I want.
Have you met other people in similar situations as you found yourself being in?
Yes and no. I haven't exactly met people having the same exact situation, but I have met people where their family hasn't accepted them. I’ve met-- I’ve read newspaper articles or seen videos of people who have it worse. Honestly, I’m always grateful for what I have, even if I don’t have everything. Because I know out there in the world, there are people that have it way a lot worse, especially in other countries that are not as liberal as this country. And this country isn’t as liberal as it sometimes seems, it’s more liberal than most of the world. But not as liberal as it should be. And it’s those people that... I want to help them, not help them in a way of pity, but help them in like, having them putting their hand on my shoulder and carrying them. Telling them that I may not be as worse than you but I know from experience, it does get better. Life does get better, for people who see the best in it.
What do you know now that you wish you knew on that first day, when you left home?
I don't think I would want to know, with all the struggle I have gone through. ‘Cause who knows maybe if I had known, it would have make me lazy. It wouldn't have given me the drive, that I have now. It would probably be... not as powerful of a moment, as it is now. I would just go through the moment and just sit it out and just think, oh that’s when I get better. How does it define the pivotal moment that I had in my life? It doesn't. If I just seen it gets better, or if someone told me it does get better, I might not have believed it right away. Because there’s a lot of social media posts, coming out stories. I’ve seen a range of coming out stories. I’ve seen a range, where parents knew before the child, and accepted them. I’ve seen stories where the child comes out of the closet and they threw a party. But I’ve also seen stories where parents abuse the child… force those tendencies out of them-- I’ve seen stories where they would get dragged across the street, by the village. I've seen stories where they get stoned. I’ve seen stories where they get arrested. But knowing what I know now, maybe I would have wanted a hint, just a small hint. Especially on those like, lonely nights. Be like, “You’re crying now, you feel weak now, you feel lonely, but tomorrow is a new day. Sun will rise, hopefully. It will be another day, to do what you want to do. With no barrier from anyone. The sky's the limit.”
I’m just thinking about some concrete steps that can be taken to... help the situation. And I’m wondering if that's key to it?
I don’t think that there is one solution. To any of this. There is no one path to go through life. There are many paths, many curves, many bumps, many potholes, especially in Jersey. [laughs] There is no one solution per person, each person is different. I can’t think of anything concrete. The only thing I can think of is the support. Even in the mystery of not knowing the future, the support always helps, no matter the situation. The knowledge helps, having people understand somewhat, to the best of their ability to what someone can go through. Knowing their resources. Where to go if anyone needs help, numbers to call. That's it, honestly. [Annotation #3]
How can there be better economic support?
I don’t know. First thing that comes to mind is the whole thing going on now, with raising the minimum wage but living in general is expensive, I don’t know how to get rid of poverty, I don’t know how to not work paycheck to paycheck, that's just the life I have been living. Like, if everyone has all the money in the world, who's left not to have it. There won’t be any rich people, there won’t be any poor people. People would still get jealous, trying to get what the other person has, that they don’t have. I really don’t know, I don’t know if it’s even possible, because the whole balance of life. That there has to be rich, there has to be poor, there has to be middle class, to keep the balance. But who knows. It’s just become a system, that's been going on for years. [Annotation #4]
So do you just accept and try to make the most of it?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes I wish it was different, but I can’t just sit around doing nothing, that’s what I’m going to school for. Trying to make a change, it might not be change for me, might a change for the future. It will be a long hectic road. For me, my fellow people, my generation, future generations. All I can do is take one day at a time, maybe it will come to me one day, maybe it won’t. Maybe it’ll come to someone else, of how to fix the system. The broken system. The kind of people versus others. I don't know. I have many of these nights with my-- one of my close friends, especially when we’re drunk [laughs]. It’s always the best conversations. About politics, economics, life questions.
Well, I appreciate your time,
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you so much for doing this with me, and opening up, taking your time. I know that you work, a lot, so I really appreciate, we got this in, late at night [both laugh].
What is sleep, anyway? [both laugh] Sleep is for the weak.
Oh god, then I am weak [both laugh].
Sleep is not in my dictionary.
Wow, so there is a coping strategy, less sleep.
It’s called hallucinating [both laugh].
Oh god. Well I app--
And lots of Red Bull.
Oh gosh. Maybe not the healthiest coping strategies.
Who said they have to be healthy? Gotta look pretty.
[Laughs] There you go. Priorities.